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Posted by andreww591 12 hours ago

I’ve built a virtual museum with nearly every operating system you can think of(virtualosmuseum.org)
644 points | 149 comments
chr1ss_code 1 minute ago|
I also could not find TempleOS, which obviously was the first thing i searched for - anyway great collection and page's look & feel. Thank you for creating & sharing.
neilv 10 hours ago||
Impressive curation effort. One comment: at least a few of the examples in the gallery seem to be of the "last, greatest" version, which actually isn't necessarily the greatest, and definitely not the most interesting.

For example, the "Domain_OS SR10.4 - 01 VUE desktop" is a bit confusing, and may cause people to miss actual DomainOS.

Apollo DomainOS (or Domain/IX, or simply Domain) had many unique and interesting things about it, but disappeared soon after being acquired by HP. It looked more like it might look if you took a programmer who had mostly only seen text terminals, and gave them a megapixel display with pixel framebuffer, a mouse, and the freedom to design the keyboard hardware, and told them to make what they would want to use.

VUE (around when the Unix workstation vendors collaborated on standarding on a common desktop environment) was for HP-UX , which was a very different operating system, and entirely different user experience. More of an early attempt at let's give non-power-users an accessible computer with virtual desktops and everything.

Similarly, Solaris had innovative OpenWindows (including but not limited to a networkable display system based on PostScript) before they got the common desktop environment.

SunOS 4.x (retronym "Solaris 1.x") and earlier could run the earlier SunView environment, which was more like monochrome early Mac than the later Open Look look and feel of OpenWindows.

eichin 11 hours ago||
I hadn't realized Domain/OS emulation was viable these days. It's one of the few systems that has actually "lost" features - the terminal-window-like thing (called pads, I think?) when in line mode had a dividing line at the bottom where your unconsumed typeahead was visible and you could continue to edit it until it got read - not just one line, the entire unconsumed input. (Not that it's a particularly desirable feature - it's just one that I'm pretty sure you can't implement with ptys...)
bilegeek 9 hours ago||
Unfortunately, pre-Domain/OS AEGIS is basically lost. One person popped up with talk of imaging their 9.6 floppies, but I haven't seen anything since then.

[1]https://www.facebook.com/groups/retrocomputers/posts/7062462...

FarmerPotato 6 hours ago|||
I just received from a retired engineer, a binder of 8” floppies that says Jan 1984, AEGIS 6.0 / Mentor 3.0, Full Backup, WBAK. The owner got them from a dumpster 40 years ago, but suspects someone just reused the binder to store blank floppies. Anyhow I’m working on it.

I’ve also found source for an AEGIS menu system (mouse, hotkeys) written in Forth.

em-bee 35 minutes ago||
it's probably not old enough, but in the mid 90s i acquired a working apollo domain workstation that was functioning as a doorstop at a university library. it came with a full set of documentation, but no floppies, i think. i don't know which version, and i don't know if it is still working now. it's gathering dust at my mothers home in europe.
neilv 8 hours ago||||
I wonder whether this could still pop up at estate sales, or when a retiree is cleaning out their garage.

Not all gear got junked. When I was a teen intern, I got some obsolete Apollos (and 2 logic analyzers and a terminal) from my employer, and other people were also bringing home gear the company "sold" them.

Somewhere, there might well be an industry or university sysadmin or programmer who brought home a box of old QIC tapes, and one of them says "AEGIS" on the label, and it's in a garage/attic.

Also, rumor has it that at one point Boeing physically archived at least one Apollo network, because they apparently take documentation integrity extremely seriously. If that's true, they might have an engineering librarian or someone who could take an interest in making sure any versions of Aegis/Domain they need (and have preserved media for) can run on emulators or something?

andreww591 4 hours ago|||
Yeah, I'd definitely like to see older versions of AEGIS as well
andreww591 4 hours ago|||
Yeah, MAME has had working Apollo emulation since around 2010. Domain/OS is definitely pretty odd. You could almost mistake SR10 for a normal functional Unix if you use the SysV or BSD universes rather than the AEGIS one, but while it is clearly Unix-like, it's also quite Multics-like as well and is pretty distinct from the typical functional Unix family.
jerf 6 hours ago|||
Not only can you implement that with PTYs, it's how they operate by default. That's why you can telnet to an HTTP server and make a mistake and use backspace to fix it. The terminal will only send lines over. You have to use a command to put it into "raw" mode so the application gets every keystroke immediately. You have to ask for your PTY to not work that way.
compsciphd 10 hours ago|||
why could you not implement it as ptys.

Currently the terminal doesn't really process input itself, it just gives the program running the "raw" fd.

If instead the terminal gave the processes a pipe (for instance) and consumed all the pty input itself (and its end of the pipe being a buffer of that content), why wouldn't it be the same?

glhaynes 10 hours ago||
What an amazingly goofy (but also kinda maybe makes sense?) feature!
simonh 9 hours ago||
No Pick?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pick_operating_system

My first actual job was working for a local health authority here in the UK, and they had a Pick computer running some database application thing, I think to do with accounting. I had to run the backups. Sorry to be a whinger, I don't mean to belittle the monumental amount of work.

CalRobert 8 hours ago||
What a legendary name for the developer.
smnplk 2 hours ago|||
Omg, I am dead. Dick Pick. That is the best name, not just for a developer :D
nullsanity 2 hours ago|||
[dead]
HeyLaughingBoy 7 hours ago|||
Ha. My first SW job interview was for a programmer on a Pick system at some small company in Manhattan. I think they were involved in publishing or something. Anyway, the salary they offered was so pitifully low all I could do was politely decline. Was too young to even know that I could negotiate.
patja 8 hours ago|||
Similar experience here. I worked on an ERP system for a chemical distributor that ran on 5 Honeywell Ultimate systems distributed across the US. General ledger, order management, warehouse order pick lists, chemical recipes, MSDS data, inventory, etc. We synced database updates every night, and once a month someone had to spend the night in the datacenter swapping 9 track tapes for backups.

I loved working in Pick BASIC on those systems. So much you could do with "dict items"

andreww591 4 hours ago||
I've got Pick PC R83 V3.1 included. The screenshots on the front page are a very small sampling of what's there.
wattzee 8 hours ago||
How can I speak with the heavens if you don't have temple OS.
juris 4 hours ago|
exactly this. no throne is more fit for Claude!
a1o 12 hours ago||
Do you have that Windows 3.1 version that came with the Compaq that had the DE that was like a paper folder instead of an empty desktop, and that you could put the icons in the different tabs of the paper folder?
Avamander 11 hours ago||
Your comment reminds me of HP's obscure EFI OS called QuickLook. I would guess there are a lot of obscure OSs out there.
philistine 8 hours ago|||
I'd watch this if I were you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssob-7sGVWs

a1o 9 hours ago|||
Oh, yeah! I think ASUS also had something like that at some point.
simianpirate 11 hours ago|||
I believe you are speaking of Tabworks?
a1o 9 hours ago||
I had to Google and it does look like it, I remember the computer would boot into it and it also had space for a few (three?) icons outside the tabs (like in the “desktop”). It was a cool interface!
andreww591 11 hours ago||
I don't think I've heard of an alternate shell/launcher like that before. Do you remember what it was called?
edoceo 5 hours ago||
Windows still (well, Win2000) lets you build a custom shell, just replace explorer.exe (and a bunch of other work).
andreww591 4 hours ago||
I've heard of custom shells for Windows before, but not that specific one
SkiFire13 11 hours ago||
Is there a way to see a list of the operating systems included without having to download and run the tool?
kmoser 7 hours ago||
It took me a few minutes to determine that this is basically software that one can download, not a website that showcases screenshots from all those OSes. A search feature would be great, or even just a text list of all included OSes.

I'm also wondering whether/how they include OSes from devices that VICE already emulates, since that could save some work if they want to include OSes of Commodore devices.

cf100clunk 11 hours ago||
I hope so, and also that it is a plain black-and-white list.
VLM 9 hours ago||
I can't figure out how to find a list and I believe that's intentional to avoid simplistic copyright search and takedown type of problems. It is aggravating how little information is available on the website.

1) I run my own systems in emulation and its always educational to see how other people handle configuration and sysadmin type problems. Much like programmers reading other programmer's code for educational purposes.

2) I have a genuine philosophical question which it appears I cannot answer by any means simpler than running it and trying it. Similar to the halting problem LOL. I wonder how the project handles operating systems like MVS/360 where there exists a perfectly good 1960s installation (which I have installed by hand from tape for the experience) however no one uses that IRL because the various MVS Turnkey projects provide seemingly infinite debugged and dependency organized patch sets. There's quite a difference between trying to white knuckle a homemade bare basic MVS/360 from the 1960s vs "MVS Turnkey 4" which basically just works out of the box.

Another example of #2 above is there's DEC PDP-8 OS-8 which technically boots... but the most common distro had a non-working but trivially fixable FORTRAN compiler (IIRC the runtime package filename was wrong or something similar). There's a lot of fun customization.

Another example of #2 above is I wonder how the author handles RSX-11M, distribute the ancient unpatched unmodified OS from DEC or ship something like the Billquist distro, or does the author ship the PiDP-11 RSX-11M (or is PiDP-11 shipping the Billquist RSX-11 distro now?)

I guess for people not into retrocomputing it would be like claiming some rando RedHat .iso from the 90s is "The" Linux operating system. Well, its "a" linux from one instant in time... Likewise there seems to be no "The" MVS/360 operating system there's a zillion possible local installs of all capability levels and eras, all very different and fun.

liquidise 10 hours ago||
This triggered a rabbit hole search that had me rediscover Packard Bell Navigator[1]. The nostalgia and joy this page brings me is hard to describe. I hope everyone remembers their formative tech journey so fondly.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packard_Bell_Navigator

mrandish 3 hours ago||
I vaguely remember using that UI. It's in that strange category of preset graphical menu launchers that were a bit more than an autoexec shell menu but much less than an OS. File it under "ideas that seemed like they might be good in concept... but were too limited in practice."

I think I got it on an early Packard Bell Pentium system in 1994. I remember I used it even though it sucked because it seemed a little better than Windows 3.1 mostly due to the fact it didn't try to look like a functional windowing operating system. Once I got my hands on Win95 beta, I never ran it again. Of course, early Win95 also sucked as a real OS but it was enough better than Win 3.1 that I could slowly begin to transition off my beloved Amiga 2500.

AlecSchueler 10 hours ago|||
I never experienced it but somehow I still feel nostalgic for it. For all we've gained there's so much we've lost as well, I'm sad my kids won't grow up with anything like this.
CalRobert 8 hours ago|||
For all we've gained... the social media site I have the healthiest relationship with is basically just text and would run fine on a machine from 1998. Sure, some parts of modernity are nice (I don't miss having to call taxi companies) but I could do without a lot of it.
Keyframe 10 hours ago|||
The maturity brought upon us homogenized experience. 90's user interfaces were something else, man.
MisterTea 8 hours ago|||
Oh, this made me dig up a memory: What was that skeuomorphic music player Packard Bell would bundle with Windows 3.1? It looked like a stack of stereo equipment with a CD player, MIDI player and wav player/recorder. When I was a kid I loved how it looked like a stereo system and grabbed a copy from a friend. I also remember being greatly disappointing when it would not run on Windows 95.
andreww591 3 hours ago||
That was Voyetra Audiostation, and I definitely remember having it on the Packard Bell 486 that was my family's first computer (which was already obsolete when we got it, since we got the cheapest machine they had; it was on clearance sale). While I do have Windows 3.10 and 3.11 for Workgroups images, I don't (yet) have one with Audiostation. I have sometimes thought about trying to find the closest PB master CD ISO to the one that came with that machine and install it, but just haven't gotten around to doing that yet (still got lots of other stuff to install).
quietfox 10 hours ago||
Oh this is that this was called. A long time ago, like in Googles earlier stages, I tried so hard to find this from my memory, but I failed and over the years forgot about it. Thanks for bringing it up again.
jonnyasmar 4 hours ago||
What I find interesting about projects like this is how much of the OS "feel" doesn't survive emulation. The visual layer comes through fine, but the things that actually defined the experience — keyboard click latency, the specific mouse acceleration curves of period hardware, the way a CRT scanline gave System 7 fonts a totally different texture than a sharp LCD does, the audible click-thunk of Atari ST or early Mac dialogs — none of that gets preserved.

Run System 7 in an emulator and the menus look right, but the input feels wrong. What we're really preserving in these collections is the screen output, not the interaction. Which is fine for an archive — just worth being honest it's a museum of appearances, not of use.

INTPenis 4 hours ago|
While we're discussing obscure operating systems, can anyone else remember an obscure Unix where uid 0 was called "avatar" instead of root?

It's one of those strange memories from my youth that I've been unable to confirm as an adult.

xiii1408 4 hours ago|
https://www.lysator.liu.se/hackdict/split/avatar.html
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