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Posted by pantalaimon 1 hour ago

Starship's Twelfth Flight Test(www.spacex.com)
73 points | 57 comments
GMoromisato 46 minutes ago|
There is a lot riding on V3. SpaceX cannot afford to take too many launches to get V3 solid. If 2026 is another 2025 (3 V2 failures in a row followed by 2 V3 successes), then they can forget about landing on the moon before 2030.

My hope is that Flight 12 goes nearly flawlessly (at least gets to soft splashdown) and they can start testing in-space refueling in July/August.

If they can demonstrate in-space refueling by the end of 2026, then they have a shot at a lunar-landing demo in 2027 and a crewed-landing in 2028. But a lot has to go right for that to happen. Here's hoping it does.

NitpickLawyer 25 minutes ago||
> then they can forget about landing on the moon before 2030.

A crewed Moon landing before 30 is really implausible. Everyone is late, but the latest NASA OIG report put the Axiom suits very late (somewhere ~2031 if everything holds, but it notes it might not hold).

russdill 12 minutes ago|||
Small edit, 2 V2 (not V3) successes (flights 10 and 11).
john_minsk 40 minutes ago|||
question: what will happen if orbit refuelling goes wrong? Won't it destroy everything in orbit?
JumpCrisscross 38 minutes ago|||
> what will happen if orbit refuelling goes wrong? Won't it destroy everything in orbit?

No. What is the mechanism through which you suspected this could happen?

bragr 36 minutes ago||
Kessler syndrome presumably?
hgoel 2 minutes ago||
Keeping the orbits low enough, and/or intentionally going suborbital after docking/before starting the fuel transfer, will make the chances of that being possible very low.

It's also worth considering that they have demonstrated cryo propellant pumping between two tanks within a ship, so, AFAIK, transfer between two ships is more about testing the docking systems, than it is about the pumps. They could probably rig the system to first pump some inert gas to verify the quality of the docking, then try to pump propellants.

Lerc 6 minutes ago||||
Presumably the effect of any explosion would decrease proportional to the volume as it expands. Is there much volume in space?
bediger4000 33 minutes ago|||
Liquid handling in microgravity has always been weird. Big gas bubbles in the fluid, surface tension effects causing liquid to float in balls in the ullage, stuff like that. Turbopumps break if they ingest a larger bubble.

There could be some odd failure modes I would think. Failure to pump the liquid, broken pumps, who really knows? My guess would be that a failure mode would be a big spill, a failure to pump, only partially refilling, or broken turbopumps before an explosion.

pmontra 5 minutes ago|||
A probably very naive question: why not pistons?
idiotsecant 12 minutes ago|||
Seems like you could use peristaltic pumps
pants2 8 minutes ago||
That would take ages!
everyone 42 minutes ago||
[flagged]
rpmisms 37 minutes ago|||
Have you met hardware guys? This is not how they operate, in my experience.
malfist 25 minutes ago|||
Are you trying to say that "hardware guys" don't care if they're working to advance the agenda from a Nazi?
saalweachter 18 minutes ago||
I mean, rocket guys have a long history of not minding advancing the agenda of a Nazi.
everyone 32 minutes ago|||
I mean I might be a hardware guy myself depending on your definition. I've never dealt with rocket engineers.. Are they "hardware guys" according to you? If so it seems you are using that term incredibly broadly.
Recurecur 33 minutes ago||||
“They [sic] guy is a freaking nazi”

Presumably you’re at least fairly intelligent, nonetheless propaganda has done its job. Fascinating…

Just FYI, engineers are one of the groups most likely to lean right.

I’m hopeful tomorrow’s launch goes flawlessly!

dbeardsl 25 minutes ago|||
Propaganda? He literally performed nazi salutes at a high visibility event. Not to mention all the wacko stuff he posts on twitter. A brilliant innovator can also have significant mental health issues.
deanCommie 18 minutes ago||||
> Just FYI, engineers are one of the groups most likely to lean right.

leaning right is one thing. Supporting Elon and Trump and MAGA is leaning far right.

hcurtiss 4 minutes ago||
OK deanCommie
everyone 31 minutes ago|||
[flagged]
excalibur 33 minutes ago||||
Aren't theories supposed to include some conjecture? This here is pure deduction.
wonderwonder 27 minutes ago||||
That's makes a lot of sense becuase the Nazi's were notorius for not having good rocket engineers
deanCommie 20 minutes ago|||
The whole DOGE debacle and in general the broad radicalization of western male youths has made me very cynical about the ethics of "young brilliant engineers".

not to say the archetype you describe doesn't exist, but disappointingly I am convinced they are far from the majority.

sfjailbird 1 hour ago||
This is the first flight of the new engines. They look so much sleeker and simpler than the previous two generations:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQGMtnP...

* And supposedly with a 20% power increase to boot!

russdill 17 minutes ago||
SN1 was a test engine, the flight engines are even cleaner https://fixupx.com/interstellargw/status/2057165036196409820
MattDamonSpace 1 hour ago|||
Oh wow that photo is from years ago but you’re correct, this is the first flight of that design
Culonavirus 10 minutes ago|||
Booster dry mass savings of around one ton per engine iirc.
chasd00 1 hour ago||
The stats are pretty out there. Iirc just the fuel pump, which you can probably pick up and put on your desk, generates 100k HP.
jvanderbot 1 hour ago||
Well, it's powered by bleeding exhaust from a very big rocket.
TomatoCo 53 minutes ago|||
One of my favorite clips to give a sense of scale for rockets is this one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70u748VALt4

I show someone and then I tell them, that's not the rocket exhaust. That's the exhaust for the engine that runs the fuel pump for the rocket.

jasonwatkinspdx 47 minutes ago|||
Nope, Raptor is full flow staged combustion, so both the fuel and oxidizer have dedicated preburners and turbopumps each.
jvanderbot 3 minutes ago||
Thanks for that correction!
cooper_ganglia 1 hour ago||
These are always exciting, even if it's more of the same. I love that we live in a time where we can regularly watch huge rockets launch into space with intentional issues just to see what might go wrong and how best to monitor/solve them.

Congratulations, everyone, at being alive at the best point in human history so far!

olliepro 1 hour ago|
With super high res onboard camera footage too.
valine 1 hour ago||
> The two modified satellites will test hardware planned for Starlink V3 and will attempt to scan Starship’s heat shield and transmit imagery down to operators to test methods of analyzing Starship’s heat shield readiness for return to launch site on future missions

Hope we get to see those images. Would be awesome to see a 3rd person view of starship in space.

maccam94 1 hour ago||
Dang, they aren't catching the booster this time, but I guess V3 is practically a new vehicle and validating the next Starship launch is probably too critical to risk damage to the launch site for now.
amarant 1 hour ago|
Oh hey, you're right! Somehow I read "water landing" and interpreted it as landing on one of the barges (ocisly or jrti) any clue why that isn't the case? Is super heavy just too big for the barges maybe?
ggreer 1 hour ago|||
They won't use barges because the booster has no landing legs (to save weight), and because the booster is massive compared to Falcon 9. Also Starship is meant for rapid reusability, and it can take days to return a barge to port and unload the booster. Getting barge landings to work would be a distraction from the goal of Starship, and SpaceX already has Falcon 9 for current payloads.

And they won't attempt a catch with the first V3 booster because it's not worth the risk. They can build a new booster every couple of months. It takes much longer to build the launch/catch tower, and they don't have any spare towers yet. A catastrophe during a booster/ship catch would set them back a year, so they'll only attempt a catch if they're confident it will succeed.

wmf 1 hour ago||||
It doesn't have landing legs so it has to be caught by chopsticks. They're skipping the barges; either it lands back at the pad or it doesn't land.
pixl97 1 hour ago|||
Superheavy is 10x larger than the Falcon. Its thrust would sink the barge.
robocat 1 hour ago||
Yeah. Rocket first stage Approx. unfueled mass:

Super Heavy: 200000 to 280000 kg

Falcon 9 first stage (without Falcon Heavy side boosters): 25600 kg

jjk166 46 minutes ago||
So 200-280 tons. A standard barge can support 1500-3000 tons of cargo. Even with the added weight of a catch tower and a healthy factor of safety thrust isn't gonna sink the barge. Far more likely the major hurdle would be stability issues with how tall it is.
pixl97 25 minutes ago||
It's not 280 tons... it's a falling object with kinetic energy so that rocket thrust is going to be very problematic for that boat especially if it' hitting unevenly.

That and there's no way for it to stand without a catch tower.

dayyan 1 hour ago||
Everyday Astronaut has posted a video on this launch https://x.com/Erdayastronaut/status/2057163096817332576?s=20
Diederich 1 hour ago|
I'm watching it now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_ecCDqTSJs As always, Tim is doing a fantastic job.
pixl97 1 hour ago||
There is a 70% chance for storms in the area tomorrow so it's very likely going to be a scrub tomorrow.
Recurecur 24 minutes ago|
AccuWeather has it at the infamous 51% probability level for thunderstorms at 5 CST, so there’s still a decent chance for success tomorrow.

Time will tell!

chasd00 1 hour ago||
Really looking forward to seeing raptor 3 fly. Those engines are insane.
lysace 29 minutes ago||
They have really invested focus in creating mass market content lately - like, actually having someone spend some time creating the text on this page. Didn't really see that earlier.

And a number of long form videos (like "Test Like You Fly").

IPO time: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cg4pe2953q1o and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48213933 (in the last few hours)

purpleidea 1 hour ago|
I don't know why they aren't doing more booster catches. Kind of a bit disappointed they keep skipping. Either they can land them or they can't. If it's not consistent then they're avoiding the possible failure so their stock price (launching soon) stays up, otherwise just prove it's solid and actually works.
ggreer 50 minutes ago||
They can build new boosters pretty quickly. New launch/catch towers take a lot longer, and they don't have any redundancy yet. Also they weren't going to reuse their V2 boosters once V3 was ready, so they could learn more by testing things like intentionally disabling an engine during the landing burn or flying at a higher angle of attack.
GMoromisato 55 minutes ago||
V3 booster has a lot of changes, including a brand new downcomer, an integrated hot-staging ring, and 3 instead of 4 grid fins. Chances of a RUD are not 0.

If Flight 12 blows up in space, they've already got Flight 13 almost assembled. It might delay them a month, maybe. But if a returning booster destroys the launch pad, it would delay them much longer--maybe a year.

With those stakes, it makes sense to not try a booster catch until they're sure it's going to work.

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