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Posted by sandebert 5 hours ago

Flipper One – we need your help(blog.flipper.net)
639 points | 294 comments
arjie 30 seconds ago|
I have a Flipper Zero and these guys made a great tool, so I clicked this headline because it said "we need your help". After scrolling two pages I couldn't find what they need my help with, though. I scrolled to the end and couldn't find it there either. If I'm being honest, I like their stuff but not enough to dig through 8 pages of content to find out what helping means.
inventor7777 24 minutes ago||
I really, really, really love this concept. I think there is SOME feature creep, but it does seem more or less scoped well to IP-type protocols.

However, I don't think they need to be prioritizing the local AI features, which are cool...but models get far smarter when you run them on a proper Mac/external GPU vs a small battery powered Flipper device. I think it might be helpful on the go, in the field, etc, but the usability with no dedicated keyboard will be rather poor.

However, I think they should keep focusing on the Zero for a possible Zero 2 to match the capabilities of this One device. I love my Zero, but I think it is missing key features like full support for garage door and RFID rolling codes, and some other protocols. The WiFi dev board is very limited, and there is no simple way to capture/playback BLE remotes IIRC. Of course, it depends on whether you consider BLE to be layer 0 or layer 1.

klik99 2 minutes ago||
"Build the most open and best-documented ARM computer in the world, with full mainline Linux kernel support." ... "the HDMI port is proprietary and requires licensing fees"

Are they upstreaming opensource HDMI 2.1 support? I mean I'm sure they're not, since they paid the toll, just feels they're not totally sticking to their guns. It's the kind of choice that shows if you really mean what you say. The more that won't license, the better chance of actually getting open drivers for common technology.

None of this takes away from how awesome this looks. Very excited by all this.

azalemeth 4 hours ago||
This looks flippin' amazing, but also like the definition of project scope creep. I imagine it will be brilliant, unaffordable, surprisingly cheap, terrible and awesome (in both senses of the word) all at the same time. 3GPP really needs a light shining through it.

I sincerely hope I work out a way of getting someone else to buy the thing for me. And the push towards all in-tree source is fantastic. Genuinely impressed.

wateralien 3 hours ago||
Some projects are meant to scope creep. Like this one. If the project manager of the swiss army knife had defended it from scope creep it would have 1 knife.
red-iron-pine 2 hours ago|||
IIRC the original scope was the 8 most common tasks that literal Swiss soldiers did. that was their scope.

sewing and maintianing clothes was one of them, for example, so thats why it has a punch. They'd need to be able to open cans, as that was the most common long term ration, and they'd need to be able to maintain their rifles which had screws, thus screwdrivers.

a version with a wine bottle opener was made for officers and became common

NGRhodes 2 hours ago|||
Which would scope creep anyway to a box of knives.
embedding-shape 4 hours ago|||
> but also like the definition of project scope creep.

To me it seems like the opposite, it has more connectivity and I/O than the Zero, but also scaled down, while using better materials, like they decided to outsource the project scope creep to the community, which makes sense to me.

salomonk_mur 3 hours ago||
Man, they put 2 processors in the thing and are building their own OS. They even say they are not sure how to get it accomplished.

Scope creep to hell and back. Could just let the device get turned off like literally any other device on earth, and not have to build a whole new fucking OS to get it running.

They even - for some reason - want to waste time "training their own AI model because general ones don't cut it" (which no one is likey to use). Could just build a normal RAG + context stuffing pipeline in an afternoon but nah, let's devote a few months to this completely unnecessary non-feature.

100 bucks say this doesn't see the light of day before 2030 (if it ever does!)

tmountain 4 minutes ago|||
Big dreamers, which is awesome, but they need a disciplined PM type team member to bring them down to Earth (ROI analysis on their roadmap).
lxgr 2 hours ago|||
> Could just let the device get turned off like literally any other device on earth, and not have to build a whole new fucking OS to get it running.

This is actually quite common in embedded devices and even elsewhere. Every Apple device does this, for example (the Secure Enclave is a completely separate OS running on a separate computer).

If you think about it, most laptops have been doing something like this for decades as well for things like brightness control etc., not with a different CPU but definitely an OS-like thing (i.e. the BIOS, using SMIs etc.)

The idea of the "single OS, single CPU computer" has been a myth for a while now.

miladyincontrol 1 hour ago|||
Yeah, CPU + MCU isnt exactly a foreign or strange idea. And they're hardly developing "their own OS", just configuring a default linux distro with various integrations particularly around display, IO and custom applets to interface with existing linux terminal programs and libraries.
reaperducer 2 hours ago|||
The idea of the "single OS, single CPU computer" has been a myth for a while now.

At least since they started running Java on SIM cards.

semolino 1 hour ago|||
Could you clarify what you mean by saying it may be both unaffordable and surprisingly cheap? (Expensive but less than expensive than it could be? Expensive but of poor build quality?)

Also why would you want/need someone else to purchase it for you? Because of your country's import laws, or reasons related to privacy/anonymity?

iamtheworstdev 34 minutes ago||
probably means - more expensive than any of us would spend on a "toy", but far cheaper than what an expert might on an industry standard version of this.
risyachka 18 minutes ago||
just fyi its also russian
____tom____ 4 hours ago||
Sounds like the second system effect. (The Mythical Man Month)

First one is simple and focused, the second one tries to be & do everything. And frequently never ships.

Yokohiii 2 hours ago||
The odd thing is that this disguises as some bare metal, hackable device.

Their TUI[1] is planned to use react(!), to share logic with their BrowserUI[2]. In the repos you can see how they struggle to get anything gpu backed done (which is required by the browser). Then falling back to wayland to do it for them. (This all seems a mess that LLMs can't figure out.)

Anyway, it does seem to end up in a custom linux desktop environment, with lots of sharp edges that makes it less hackable.

[1] https://docs.flipper.net/one/cpu-software/flipctl [2] entirely unclear why a terminal is insufficient for networked TUIs

infraredshift 2 hours ago||
[dead]
embedding-shape 4 hours ago|||
> First one is simple and focused

First time I've heard anyone call the Flipper Zero "simple" and "focused", most people seemed to have considered it a "swiss-knife" meant to just house a bunch of features and radios, meanwhile the One has less features but more connectivity and I/O.

But apparently you're not alone in feeling this, but I don't understand what from the submission makes you and others believe so, what exactly gave you this impression?

randusername 3 hours ago||
Well the first one was a microcontroller.

And this one is an 8-core Arm computer and the project has ambitions of some notoriously difficult things: no binary blobs, full mainline support (including a NPU), reinventing small-screen UI for more serious handheld computing, and supporting a ton of high-bandwidth interfaces.

This is not a simple step up in difficulty.

salomonk_mur 3 hours ago|||
Agreed. This will likely never ship with all the bloat. Custom AI model, custom OS, extremely custom architecture (2 "main" processors running independently...), barely reuses any of the previous work from Flipper Zero.
jsmith45 2 hours ago|||
A combined MPU and MCU architecture isn't that exotic. ST microelectronics currently sells a single chip with that contains a two core Cortex A7 Microprocessor combined with a microcontroller. Admittedly more tightly integrated with ability to communicate via shared memory.

The "custom os" part could also be done easilly enough with the correct approach.

Specifically systemd has a less-known feature known as system extensions intended for basically exactly these sort of scenarios. These system-extensions are basically disk images containing files in /usr and/or /opt that can be dynamically overlaid on the existing filesystem (the intent is that these are purely additive). Systemd also intends that all os provided configuration live in /usr, with /etc existing only for machine specific or admin applied configuration. (And which should enabling overriding anything specified by the package or OS.)

System extensions when used default /opt and /usr to be read-only, but you can enable mutability if you having write routing directories or symlinks in the right spot.

So for userland this whole os profiles things could literally just be a set a of system-extensions, a distinct /etc folder, and distinct set of write redirect directories for each. An initramfs can simply bind mount the /etc directory, and add the correct write redirection symlnks before systemd starts. Rolling back a profile is simply wiping its write redirection and /etc folders. If you also want each to potentially have distinct device trees and/or customized kernels, that would need additional bootloader work on top, but nothing that feels too extreme.

Now in reality, since not everything support systemd style configuration, these OS profiles would probably need to construct an initial /etc by copying files from a base-os template, and then copying in anything included in the system extension images (which can have these as systemd will ignore such folders), but that is straightforward enough.

Aurornis 9 minutes ago|||
> A combined MPU and MCU architecture isn't that exotic. ST microelectronics currently sells a single chip with that contains a two core Cortex A7 Microprocessor combined with a microcontroller. Admittedly more tightly integrated with ability to communicate via shared memory.

Don't underestimate the value of that integration.

With the hybrid architecture chips you get the vendor controls for managing the MCU with supporting documentation. ST is good at this.

This isn't the same thing. It's two chips running side by side. It's possible to set it all up so that the Linux chip can control everything you need to manage the MCU, but it's not easy. There are a lot of edge cases to think about and things that need to be handled manually.

glitchc 1 hour ago|||
> A combined MPU and MCU architecture isn't that exotic. ST microelectronics currently sells a single chip with that contains a two core Cortex A7 Microprocessor combined with a microcontroller. Admittedly more tightly integrated with ability to communicate via shared memory.

Going with an SoC is much simpler than trying to set up custom communications between two processors, I'm not sure why they didn't think of that.

lxgr 3 hours ago|||
> 2 "main" processors running independently...

On the other hand, this has been working pretty well for the first few Raspberry Pis! (Although they had the benefit of leveraging an existing smart TV based platform for that.)

gwbas1c 2 hours ago||
They're very explicit that Flipper 1 isn't a "v2", but a device that targets different use cases.
antirez 2 hours ago||
This lacks the sharp idea the Zero had. I have the feeling that in order to do something different, and not an evolution, the result will be borderline useless: a portable ARM computer with Wifi / satellite connection / ... And, then? What I can do with it? The evolution that I could like is a Zero with more CPU power, SDR and LoRa. Then let's implement all the cool protocols that it is possible to implement.
Aurornis 14 minutes ago||
I agree, but on the other hand I think most people who bought a Flipper Zero didn't really have a use for that either. The most commonly cited use case is doing something with RFID tags, which was already achievable with much cheaper hardware.

There's a big category of tools that people buy because they're cool and feel like they come with limitless possibilities, but then end up in a drawer. Raspberry Pi became this for a lot of people. It took a lot of years and a lot of market saturation before everyone realized that they're not a good deal if you have a specific need for a general purpose computer, despite their usefulness for specific applications.

The Flipper Zero felt like a tool with infinite possibilities, but it takes a while for most people to admit that they don't have infinite needs for a product and that application-specific hardware can often do a better job for less. But it's a cool product and it had a lot of viral marketing going in its favor.

arm32 39 minutes ago|||
I wish they took the Zero, added the Linux, SDR and 5G and the fancy case upgrade. Leave the AI out. That'd be sweet.
MadrasThorn 16 minutes ago|||
I have to agree baby steps.

They design a completely new product and suddenly announce a collaboration?

Not a fan but the new project looks cool.

peter-m80 1 hour ago|||
That sounds amazing to me
mixtureoftakes 1 hour ago||
So they made a phone?
idle_zealot 45 minutes ago||
More evidence of the Smartphonification theory. Much like how all life trends towards crab, or all software towards reading mail and including a bespoke Scheme implementation, I posit that all hardware eventually becomes a smartphone.

Examples: - the cellphone (obviously) - my TV - my refrigerator - my oven - music players - tablet computers - laptops (well on their way) - cash registers->PoS sales machines - handheld game consoles

Balgair 28 minutes ago||
> Much like how all life trends towards crab

Carcinisation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinisation)

The same seems to be true for trees too (arborescence).

armchairhacker 4 hours ago||
Can someone explain why Flipper is making these decisions, or what advantages Flipper One has vs a Flipper Zero, RPI, and Linux machine?

The (EDIT2: maybe not) AI writing doesn’t help.

EDIT: looking more, it seems like the goal is to be a fun project like Playdate, except a Linux multi-tool instead of game console. Which is actually great, a step towards healing today’s corporatized tech culture. It’s unfortunate that the website non-explains this with AI and marketing speak.

EDIT2: I wrote too soon, AI is making me too cynical. My only remaining critique is that they explain the motive instead of just stating features and repeating “we’re doing something exciting and important [for reasons not really explained]”

GuB-42 3 hours ago||
> what advantages Flipper One has vs a Flipper Zero

They work at different layers, the Zero is physical, the One is network. There is almost no overlap between the two, so one doesn't have an advantage over the other.

> RPI

It has a battery, with attention given to power management, and is a complete unit, not just a board.

> Linux machine

You mean like a laptop? You can probably do all this on a Linux laptop PC, but the Flipper One is a smaller, more specialized device, with a firmware as open as the manufacturers will let them.

> My only remaining critique is that they explain the motive instead of just stating features

Go to this page for this: https://docs.flipper.net/one/general/features

embedding-shape 4 hours ago|||
Can't answer for the One, as I don't think even they themselves know what it'll end up being when done, but for the Zero, the biggest benefit have been the whole "one device = one large community = lots of firmware = lots of software" thing which gets a lot of benefits from one cohesive community around one device, I'm guessing the One would also get similar benefits with this.

As a current Zero user, I'd definitively get a One once available, just the addition of the PTT-button feels worth it to me, but almost all the other changes are good (IMO) as well, don't really see any drawbacks from the design they're aiming for now, besides the modularity will make things slightly more complicated, but also comes with a ton of obvious benefits.

brookst 3 hours ago||
Can you elaborate on how you use the zero? I got all excited, bought one, and it’s in a drawer. I’m way deep into coding, CNC machining, making of all sorts… but I just never incorporated it.

What am I missing? What do you use yours for?

embedding-shape 1 hour ago|||
> Can you elaborate on how you use the zero?

Mostly around debugging and troubleshooting networking (WiFi+Zigbee network) at home, which the Zero is nice for this as it's easy to bring with me to any area in the house/yard and test stuff wherever. I used to use a laptop+radio for this, but I no longer have any laptops and the Zero does the trick nicely enough.

I also tend (try) to duplicate any keyfobs/cards I come across too, as backups, which helped me just the other day as we've lost the card we got for the municipal trash, so now I'm using the Zero to unlock them as we still haven't recovered that card.

Some months ago I used it for moving a bunch of AC+IR remotes to be connected to my Home Assistant installation by first reverse-engineering the IR protocol then building my own hardware for it with a little IR transmitter, now I can remotely control the old AC unit regardless of where I am in the house. I'm pretty sure it's a fairly standard protocol I didn't need to reverse-engineer myself, probably well documented on the internet already, but way more fun to do so yourself.

nkotov 1 hour ago||||
I'm in a similar boat. I'm not passionate enough about technology with the Flipper Zero. Don't get me wrong, really cool device but I've pretty much just used it as a toy to play snake on and a universal remote. If it just had a 3.5mm jack, I would use it as an MP3 player as well.
cess11 3 hours ago|||
Mine is mostly just lying around but sometimes I find some use for it. This winter I bought some remote controlled electricity sockets that at first didn't seem to work so then I got the Flipper and started recording radio to figure out what was happening. Turns out the remote was some cheap hardware that at first broadcast promiscously and to the sockets entirely unintelligibly but with time and trying it stabilised.

If I didn't have the Flipper or some other SDR device I'd probably have assumed it was bad and left it at the recycling station. If I'd lose the original remote I can use the recordings on the Flipper to either control the sockets or create a new remote.

I've also looked into how the key fob to my car works and investigated tens of RFID and NFC cards, some of which I could probably have talked to with my phone but I like the format of the Flipper and it has very few distractions except Snake.

When traveling I sometimes bring it up just to check out what radio stuff I can find and think about what devices might be sending.

bonsai_spool 4 hours ago|||
> The AI writing doesn’t help.

Why do you say there is AI writing?

armchairhacker 3 hours ago|||
> So today we're going public not with a big shiny announcement, but to tell the whole story straight. Honestly? We're genuinely terrified, and we need your help.

> Flipper Zero and Flipper One operate at different protocol layers [below a graphic with features like "Power Bank". Do they know what a "protocol layer" is or do I not?]

> Flipper One isn't an upgrade to Flipper Zero — it's a completely different project with its own goals.

And lots of em-dashes.

But looking closer, I actually suspect it’s not AI, the author just integrated LLM-isms into their style.

psolidgold 46 minutes ago|||
Indeed. Looking back at the previous blog posts by this author from 2020 shows the same isms. Maybe AI trained on these posts instead of the other way around.
kensai 1 hour ago|||
So the em-dashes is the new AI taletell? I mean, I have noticed them, but never thought it was such a characteristic.
miladyincontrol 1 hour ago||
New telltale? I mean this in the most polite way but have you been living under a rock? Its been a clear sign people have been more than noticing since at least 4o back in mid 2024.
speedgoose 4 hours ago||||
The writing style.
chuckadams 4 hours ago|||
Anything that anyone ever writes from now on has people coming out of the woodwork to accuse it of being AI-written. I too bemoan what the written word is coming to, but I am also so over the Slop Police, and wish they would just keep the conclusions of their sleuthing to themselves from now on.
LastTrain 4 hours ago|||
I appreciate that some sites state explicitly whether AI was used in content creation. I wish it were the social norm.
simonklitj 3 hours ago||
I think this is the optimal outcome of the “Slop Police.” Normalization of these acknowledgements. Transparency is good, like a journalist declaring whether they have vested interests.
armchairhacker 3 hours ago|||
I usually give the benefit of the doubt, and regret accusing this article. It's the articles and comments that are obviously AI and score 100% on Pangram that I still feel should be called out, because the writing is hard to understand and the underlying message rarely makes good insight or discussion.
hdb2 2 hours ago||
Yeah, you've acknowledged it in your edits, but just for others: the author commented above that he did not use AI, only translation tools.
garciansmith 2 hours ago||
It's interesting that the d-pad is on the right and the mouse pad on the left. I would have thought they'd be flipped, and indeed that's how it was in the prototype picture. I'm curious as to the reasoning for the change, though I don't know anything about the UI.

Also, what's a "survival desktop"? I've never heard that term and I couldn't find it used elsewhere.

ourcat 10 minutes ago||
The 'Layers' comparison image suggests that there would be no Bluetooth in the Flipper One. I would have thought that would still be very useful in 'Layer One'?
xbar 33 minutes ago|
Flipper Zero is great. I would have built a Flipper 0.1 first, but I see why they are doing this.

Flipper One's hardware designs and constraints are very compelling. I would have preferred an additional physical switch to disable all emissions.

That said, if they can pull of the initial software stack it will be a strong platform for a broad set of use cases.

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