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Posted by bifftastic 10 hours ago

How to convert between wealth and income tax(paulgraham.com)
152 points | 526 commentspage 10
scotty79 2 hours ago|
I have a weird take on income tax.

In my opinion it's not a tax on the employee but on the employer and one of very few solid methods of actually taxing the rich (for as long as the rich need labor to get richer).

Your income tax money never reaches your pocket so it's never a part of your actual income and if employer didn't pay your income tax, they are (not you) on the hook for that.

And if income tax rate was lowered to zero, the employer wouldn't automatically start paying you that much more. There would be a renegotiation and most of that money would stay with the employer, because you already agreed and demonstrate that you can work for as little as you do. Of course in specific cases that the position of the employee in the market is very strong, some companies might choose to use the money they don't have to pay as your income tax to compete for employers by offering higher salaries. But that's definitely not given. Company getting richer rarely automatically translates to higher salaries.

So employee, if the economy is strong, should advocate for as high income taxes as possible, because that one of the very few ways that the money in the economy flows from the rich to the poor (with a detour through governments, which are poor nowadays anyway, perpetually indebted to the rich).

drcongo 8 hours ago||
Is this Graham accidentally revealing his contempt for working people?
bayarearefugee 7 hours ago|
He's a billionaire.

Based on available data deep contempt for working people should be assumed until proven otherwise, even for billionaires who are 'self-made' by way of a lot of right-time-right-place luck.

zelon88 4 hours ago||
Oligarch argument. Tax anything over $999m in assets, stocks, wealth at 100%. No more billionaires.
gist 8 hours ago||
> That's why I think few politicians currently understand how to convert between wealth and income taxes. You can tell from the way they talk about the subject that they don't understand the momentousness of what they're proposing. But I'm optimistic that we can teach them. The answer's not hard to understand, once you realize the question exists.

What a pompous and uninformed "I am smarter than others" way to think. And very 'parental' (ie 'we can teach them').

Note that Politicians (in order to remain in their job) need to think in terms of the people they represent and getting re-elected by those people. You may not like it it may not be good for you but understand that in the position they are in why they do it.

renticulous 7 hours ago||
The real problem is our politicians aren't representing our people. All these other issues of wasteful spending and money printing and inflation and whatnot are downstream of that main crux of problem. People don't hate wealthy perse but when laypeople aren't provided proper means of living, they will try anything as a solution, even throwing a wrench in the system. That's how we got Trump.
etchalon 10 hours ago||
I think Paul thinks people care about the distinction, or think that a 20% marginal increase to the nation's wealthiest is something the public would find "unfair".

Rich people need to stop hanging out with other rich people.

voidhorse 7 hours ago||
yawn hack writer issues wealth-hoarding and inequality apologia.

Economics is simple. Resources are finite, and money plus markets preserve that finitude as an invariant (that's why it works as a store of value). If you sit on more money and accumulate more money a natural consequence is that someone else has less access to the finite resources available (either in actuality or in potentia), period, because you can accumulate enough to begin to dictate how much they can access (by having decision power around wages). There is no reason to assume private individual wealth-hoarders have public interest in mind, and indeed they have often proven that they don't. They want to maximize value at specific points in the system, which is the literal definition of instability and eventual collapse in chaos theory. You need to bring the system back to stability through structural intervention and regulation. Tax the rich. Cap individual accumulation. It's that simple. The world does need or benefit from kings, whether minted through politic or finance.

robertoandred 5 hours ago|
Investments aren’t money. They’re just things you own, and their value can go up and down. They don’t affect the money supply.
gist 8 hours ago||
> In the median case, US state politicians talking about adding a "mere 1%" wealth tax are talking about causing the residents of their state to have the highest taxes in the world. That's not the sort of decision you make lightly.

The missed point is that a 1% wealth tax 'only for a select group' can easily become later a 1% (or higher) wealth tax 'for a less select group'.

duped 10 hours ago||
> So in the median case, a state adding an additional 20% in income tax would have a total marginal tax rate of 37% + 4.75% + 20%, or 61.75%

Good! It should still be higher!

There's nothing more tone deaf than an uber wealthy man arguing he shouldn't pay more in taxes to the system that allows him to be uber wealthy and to be deliberately misleading at the same time.

themafia 4 hours ago|
Cool, now I just need: "How to convert between silicon valley bloviating and normal human dialog."

> None of them would speak of adding a "mere 20%" to the income tax rate, even though that's mathematically the same thing.

Income tax is progressive. So, not really.

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