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Posted by ceejayoz 3 hours ago

U.S. researchers face new restrictions on publishing with foreign collaborators(www.science.org)
177 points | 92 commentspage 2
kittikitti 3 hours ago|
I knew that most research had ties to government funding but it was only recently that I realized the scale of it. Along with the pullback of any government funding remotely resembling DEI, policies like the one described in the article wouldn't decimate research from my previous understanding. In terms of influence, it's now clear to me that the government controls anywhere between 75 to 99% of academic research. I feel foolish for believing all the details in subsequent papers from the research about why their work is necessary or important. It turns out, all of it is because the government requested it and really nothing else.
bo1024 42 minutes ago||
Your current understanding also seems a bit warped. The US government provides the source of a lot of research funding but historically exerts little "control". Generally grant applications are evaluated by panels of researchers who don't work for the federal government.

Also, this government funding supports fundamental innovations that private companies wouldn't fund because it's too general and too far from monetizable. But after those breakthroughs happen funded by public research, private industry benefits enormously. This includes most health and medical advances and the science underlying most technological advances. So government funding doesn't conflict with the work being necessary or important, on the contrary, it is possibly more important long-term.

Disclaimer? The government funds some of my research.

convolvatron 2 hours ago||
that's not entirely true, it is to some degree. by convention there have been a few buffer layers between actual grant allocation and naked politics. funding gets allocated to someplace like NSF, NIH, ONR or DARPA. Those organizations have directorates or area concentrations. Each directorate has a program manager (the terms vary based on org) who puts out request for proposals (grant applications).

The PMs are generally chosen from the sciences, and are responsible for authoring RFPs that meet strategic goals, and negotiate with the PIs (grant recipients) about terms and sizes and such.

So there are really two political realms, above the funding agency, and underneath, and its entire function is reconcile those worlds in a pretty vague way with a certain amount of autonomy given to the PM.

This isn't 100% great, but if you have good PM, some good science does get funding. While this seems like a lot of machinery, if you short circuit all of it, and have the presidents direct flunkies make funding decisions, that basically means that almost no real science gets done.

kahrl 3 hours ago||
Well, we can't have have the non indoctrinated taking away our freedom. USA USA USA.
josefritzishere 2 hours ago||
Xenophobia makes for poor science.
WaitWaitWha 2 hours ago||
Can we take a step back and review the article and the underlying information? I am very much against any arbitrary and often unnecessary government interference. I also publish.

Lot's of weasel words.

This is not unprecedented. Restrictions tied to foreign collaboration are not new, NIH has done this as far back as 2018 if I recall. Yes, foreign research restrictions have escalated recently.

We have no official statement for either agencies. Collaborating on sensitive or classified material with identified FOCI coauthors is and always have been highly scrutinized activity. Title 32 CFR 117.11 is old. It goes back as far as DoD 5220.22-M in the '90s.

NISPM-33 Office of Science and Technology Policy efforts have been around since 2018 too or so (i am sooo old :/).

This appears to be a continuation of escalation of research-security, rather than a wholly unprecedented break from prior policy.

gwbas1c 2 hours ago|
This happens when a country is preparing to go to war. It's what happened with nuclear research around the start of the Manhattan project.
dghlsakjg 2 hours ago||
The US is currently at war by all definitions except a declaration of war.
BeetleB 1 hour ago||
So, medical research (NIH grants) is in preparation for going to war? Is the US planning on using biological agents?