> Description list support continues to be generally good (with VoiceOver still the outlier), even if you may not like how it is supported.
You shouldn't try to fix this kind of thing by mangling the HTML, since (1) users tend to be used to their screen reader's quirks, and (2) in situations like these, making it juuuust right in one screen reader is likely to make it incomprehensible in another. But it is important to be aware of these quirks, so you don't accidentally design an interface that relies on less-quirky behaviour.
Wait what? <DL> has been in HTML since.. the first draft in 1993!
I like DL's but they can be challenging to style. This article is using a lot of fixed pixel widths which would break on really small screens or larger data.
And that's just for browsers, there's no shared spec for the operating system accessibility APIs the browsers' accessibility tree has to be translated into or how screen readers (and other assistive technologies) will use the OS's APIs.
Some of the extracted CSS chunks
#statblock{
box-shadow:0 20px 25px -5px rgba(0,0,0,.1),0 10px 10px -5px rgba(0,0,0,.04);
font-family:Lato,'Trebuchet MS',sans-serif;
font-size:85%;
min-width:50ch;
max-width:70ch;
margin-inline:auto;
background-color:#fffaf0;
padding-inline:2rem;
padding-block:1rem
}
dl.statblock-bio{
color:maroon;
line-height:1.5;
border-top:5px solid maroon;
border-bottom:5px solid maroon;
margin-block:0.75em;
padding-block:0.75em
}
dl.ability-scores{
min-width:40ch;
display:flex;
justify-content:space-around;
color:maroon
}
dl.ability-scores>div{
text-align:center;
line-height:1.5
}
dl.ability-scores dt{
font-weight:700
}I dunno, I guess I’m a caveman. If it looks right and works (including accessibility) then I figure I’m pursuing something that doesn’t matter a lot.
I need to learn more about web accessibility, but if you completely ignore it (and other sane practices) HTML looks really simple.
I think the design of HTML is just too much. There’s so many tags that don’t do much. It’s like w3c decided that any common thing people use in websites needs a tag. The end result is more and more tags…
Can anyone convince me otherwise? It screams design red-flags to me.
PS: I love the web and think it’s the best platform and future platform we have at the moment. It’s just quirky and loves not breaking old websites!
> I need to learn more about web accessibility, but if you completely ignore it (and other sane practices) HTML looks really simple.
Everything looks really simple when you ignore vast amounts of the subject and nuance.
Your rules don't mention keyboard or focus behavior, the only mention of either is the association between <label> and its <input>. <output> does have functionality, it's an HTML-native ARIA live region (that can be associated with a <label>).
I’ve noticed that discussions of semantic meaning of tags often contain the word “feel.” Nothing wrong with that, taste matters, but it does point to the non-functional goals that are being pursued when people disagree.
<ol> vs <ul> - they are both ordered, because markup is ordered. One gets decorated differently than the other by default. Is the difference semantic or typographical?
<ul> Players
<li> Alice
<li> Bob
<li> Carol
</ul>
<ol> Leaderboard
<li> Bob
<li> Alice
<li> Carol
</ol>So is it a decoration hint? Or is it actually semantic? And what system is interpreting the semantics rather than the visual presentation?
In theory.
In practice, no one cares about semantics and the tags are chosen based on how a target set of browsers happens to display them.
dl {
display: grid;
grid-template-columns: 1fr 3fr;
grid-template-rows: auto;
}
dt {
grid-column-start: 1;
}
dd {
grid-column-start: 2;
}
And... it also uses the wrapper div for styling
I don't really like the div either (I use the design system all day, and maintain a set of components), but it makes documentation much easier.
I put dl lists in a grid with no divs needed. As MDN says, div is the last resort, invariably there is something better, and nowadays that is grid styling.
New to me is multiple dd's.
For legacy layouts littered with divs and classes, display: contents helps get rid of the div wrappers, promoting whatever is wrapped.
Even with disclosure elements there are ways to avoid div wrappers using the pseudo element for everything enclosed by the details element apart from the summary element.