Top
Best
New

Posted by ColinWright 3 hours ago

The UK Government's Low Value Purchase System Is a Waste of Time(shkspr.mobi)
93 points | 50 commentspage 2
toyg 3 hours ago|
They should just have a "suspend account" option. You file a nil return once, suspend, never come back unless you have to. Seems easy enough.
em-bee 1 hour ago||
in a way i like the system in china. they simply force you to use their software to print invoices or receipts on government supplied numbered invoice paper, which automatically reports every sale. if there is no sale you don't need to do anything, because it's practically not possible to make a sale without printing a receipt and have it reported.

for end consumer sales for a while the receipt paper had a scratch field where you could win something. this was to encourage consumers to demand the receipt.

they obviously didn't trust you to self report accurately, but this also reduces the friction, because i don't even need to bother making any reports. i don't think my accountant needs to do anything either. they have access to the same system and probably just verify that i didn't misfile or forget something. of course apart from the printed receipts everything is digital.

Scoundreller 1 hour ago|
Restaurants in Quebec are similar: forcibly integrated into a provincial sales tax system and part of your receipt has some government segment.

Largely because unscrupulous restaurants had, I think they were called “zippers” to perma-erase revenue/transactions.

Some EU countries did a “if you don’t get a receipt, you don’t have to pay”, which erased the concept of a bar tab. During a drinking session with friends, you’d end up with a stack of receipts to pay as you got a receipt with each beer request.

Income taxes are a similar idea: employer pays on your behalf and then you do some manual or virtually automatic reconciliation at the end of the year. Canada is pretty much the latter where the gov already has all the info and you can import it into your tax software where most people don’t have to change anything.

I dunno why countries like sales taxes but low tariffs. Would be easier to tariff imports at a small number of points and let everything internal run free. Why have sales tax on local production.

The more “tax points” you create, the harder it’s going to be to enforce it all.

m463 1 hour ago|||
Some people don't realize that receipts are not for them (the customer).

They're to make sure employees ring up the sale (and don't pocket the money)

and now I understand they're for the government too, to make sure taxes are paid.

em-bee 1 hour ago|||
tariffs wouldn't capture anything locally produced.
Scoundreller 48 minutes ago|||
Which is great!

Give the local producers of any size a bit of subsidy instead a dog’s breakfast of programs to accomplish the same with a ton of friction.

Probably wouldn’t work well in China, but here in Canada…

rapidaneurism 1 hour ago|||
Aren't local profits taxed?
em-bee 47 minutes ago|||
profits are taxed, but VAT captures turnover or revenue, not profits, otherwise if everyone spends all their profits there would be nothing left to tax.
socksy 1 hour ago|||
Isn't that just VAT?
mft_ 1 hour ago||
Eh, I was expecting something far worse from the title.

Once a month, an email reminds you to click on a provided link, log in (via saved credentials, one assumes?) and click a single button? I get that it's small frustration, but I suspect there are far more egregious administration inefficiencies in the world of government than this.

(You should try living/working in Germany ;) )

Also to note, the title is a vast overstatement, but I guess "The monthly reporting requirements of the UK Government's Low Value Purchase System is a very minor waste of time, on some occasions" isn't quite so catchy.

m463 1 hour ago||
This reminds me of the terry gilliam movie Brazil, with dystopian bureaucracy...
philipwhiuk 2 hours ago||
I think "machine readable" in UK government parlance might just mean 'not hard copy' but I'm not 100%.
traceroute66 2 hours ago||
This blog post title would be better worded "small business owner is surprised by contract term he signed up for".

I mean, it does say it right there in black and white in the Supplier Contract that he signed up for ....

    Section 3 CCS - Supplier contract, Reporting Period: "The Supplier must complete an MI Report and return it to CCS by the fifth Working Day of every month during the Term and thereafter until all transactions relating to any Buyer Contract have permanently ceased. If at any point there is a period of a month where no reportable transactions occur, then the Supplier must make a declaration to CCS confirming no business has been conducted, in place of data submission."
I know, to quote the author, "It can be hard running a small business.". But surely at least make an effort to read contracts you sign up to ?
simonw 2 hours ago|
At no point did the author suggest that small businesses were surprised by this requirement - just that it's pointless bureaucracy, which it is.

And that's especially ironic since the whole point of the "Low Value Purchase System" is to make selling to government less time-consuming for small businesses!

traceroute66 2 hours ago||
> At no point did the author suggest that small businesses were surprised by this requirement - just that it's pointless bureaucracy, which it is.

Well, they are complaining about having to login monthly to file a zero report.

Yes, I agree its bureaucratic, but that's no excuse for not reading the damn contract !

If they read the contract they signed up to, perhaps they would have decided "fuck that" and not bothered signing up in the first place.

P.S. Reading contracts is a good thing, because I bet this guy also missed all the juicy indemnity and liability clauses, some of which are unlimited for "interesting" things such as unlimited indemnity for third-party Intellectual Property claims against the government related to what you supplied them:

     10.5 If any claim is made against CCS for actual or alleged infringement of a third party’s intellectual property arising out of, or in connection with, the supply or use of the Offered Deliverables (an "IPR Claim"), then the Supplier indemnifies CCS against all losses, damages, costs or expenses (including professional fees and fines) incurred as a result of the IPR Claim.
simonw 2 hours ago||
How do you know they didn't read the contract and know exactly what would be required of them?

Just because it's in the contract doesn't mean you can't complain if it's a stupid waste of time.

traceroute66 2 hours ago||
> Just because it's in the contract doesn't mean you can't complain if it's a stupid waste of time.

For a start they would be better of complaining to their MP instead of ranting about it on the internet. At least there is a remote chance their MP is in a position to do something about it.

devilbunny 49 minutes ago|||
Letter to MP: one letter to MP, nothing to show for it.

Complain on blog: several letters to MPs of different districts, all of whom can now say that their constituents are writing to them and complaining about the same thing.

I don’t know the inner workings of Parliament but this is pretty basic for any remotely democratic government system. One person who cares a lot is less valuable than a lot of people who only care a little.

applfanboysbgon 1 hour ago||||
Bringing more widespread awareness to niche issues most people aren't aware of is, by some infinitesimally small percentage perhaps, more likely to have an impact on bureacracy than trying to act alone. Or maybe they know things aren't going to change, and are complaining on their personal blog to have a vent, which they are perfectly well within their rights to do. Just like you're allowed to complain about their complaining blog post, and I'm allowed to complain about your complaining comments about their complaining blog post. I think your complaining comments about their complaining blog post are rather more annoying and less interesting to read than their complaining blog post, but I suppose you'll probably think my complaining comment about your complaining comments about their annoying blog post are more annoying still :)
simonw 1 hour ago||||
Terence Eden's blog is very influential in the world of the UK technology civil service.

Writing about it there is a lot more likely to have a positive result than writing to his MP.

M2Ys4U 1 hour ago|||
The author is a former civil servant. I think it's safe to assume he knows that writing to his MP is an option...
morgan_stanly 3 hours ago|
And how much time have humans collectively wasted reading this article?
hennell 2 hours ago||
Obviously far less - it's 3 mins per person, but you can stop 20 seconds in if it's not relevant to you so those of us who read it all probably don't consider the time wasted.

Also you're not forced to come back and read it again every month which is the real problem.

simonw 2 hours ago||
I'd like a refund on the time I spent reading your comment.
mft_ 1 hour ago||
I've spent cumulatively much more time comparing SVGs of pelicans, and we know who's responsible for that...
simonw 1 hour ago||
Hah, fair!