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Posted by leopoldj 3 hours ago

Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'(www.bloomberg.com)
163 points | 90 commentspage 2
rvz 2 hours ago|
Good. Would love to buy SpaceX stock at a 90% discount after the IPO and the next tech / AI correction.
Danox 1 hour ago||
Why is it a good thing to buy something that is financially not well run up front, and usually things don’t get better as time goes on however, if you’re in first, you can just sell it down the road and let someone else hold the bag in time.

Tesla was a great ride if you got in early but long-term from this point on if you had any significant amount of money, why would you buy them now? Unless you like sleepless nights…

hparadiz 2 hours ago||
Imagine not wanting to own a piece of the first company to make a re-usable orbital class booster.
horsawlarway 1 hour ago|||
Yeah, I also don't want to eat a tasty morsel if you roll it around in the dirt and serve it up covered in bugs and hair.

And that's basically what SpaceX is right now after you account for xAI and twitter in the mix.

So I'd love to own a piece of the SpaceX from a decade ago - but the current offering smells pretty bad.

Combined with the fact that at this point, Musk clearly isn't opposed to running a business with dramatically inflated valuations based on vaporware, lies, & hype (cough - Tesla - cough) it just makes me far more skeptical than I might otherwise be.

I think caution is warranted here.

Essentially - I want to own the SpaceX that could have been if we didn't end up with the shoddy k-hole version of musk in charge of things.

hparadiz 1 hour ago||
The current SpaceX is in a far better financial and operational position than 10 years ago. By an order of magnitude. 90% of all payload to orbit right now is SpaceX alone. Starlink is profitable all on it's own. Right now. And they are just now picking up steam. American Airlines just signed onto Starlink just last week. This company is most likely gonna be the Coca-Cola of transportation between celestial bodies in solar system for the next 500 years but people on here are arguing over peanuts. On HN of all places.
Root_Denied 11 minutes ago|||
>The current SpaceX is in a far better financial and operational position than 10 years ago. By an order of magnitude. 90% of all payload to orbit right now is SpaceX alone. Starlink is profitable all on it's own. Right now.

I don't think anyone is really arguing these particular points.

>And they are just now picking up steam. American Airlines just signed onto Starlink just last week. This company is most likely gonna be the Coca-Cola of transportation between celestial bodies in solar system for the next 500 years but people on here are arguing over peanuts. On HN of all places.

This is speculation based on SpaceX's trajectory to this point, however we've seen Musk make some decisions that bring the long term future prospects of SpaceX into question. While Musk remains unbeholden to anyone else, which an IPO doesn't change, he's the biggest risk factor in the equation - and that's not speculation, it's an objective assessment of what's possible within the corporate structure of SpaceX.

What's subjective is whether you anticipate Musk will add more trash to the pile. Was the Twitter/xAI acquisition by SpaceX, with it's stupidly obvious fraudulent valuations, an outlier of some kind? Or was it a predictor of future actions that put similar economic strain on SpaceX, and would affect it's future stability and economic viability? Since Musk is capable of crashing and burning the whole of SpaceX by himself, without anyone legally capable of vetoing his decisions, it's a valid line of questioning.

Personally I feel I've seen enough of how Musk operates that I can be confident he'll make similar decisions in the future, and that makes me consider SpaceX a high risk investment. I'm also far from alone in this assessment, and there's a valid concern from investors of those index funds about being railroaded into adding SpaceX to their mix.

Danox 1 hour ago||||
SpaceX is completely dependent upon the government. If said government decides to move on then what long-term and they will move on because of China, Russia and the EU but mostly because of China.

This brief dalliance in private enterprise in space will not last long-term.

capitainenemo 53 minutes ago||
Only a fifth of spacex revenue is currently from government contracts, a percentage that they forecast will continue to trend downwards.

(not to say that isn't a huge risk if it disappeared, it's just far from "completely dependent")

mrhottakes 31 minutes ago||
How much of their projected revenue is from AI that will never materialize?
capitainenemo 28 minutes ago||
shrug not interested in stock market speculation. That ⅕th figure is from 2025 actual revenue figures. The government percentage had dropped from 2024 where it was ¼.

It's variable though, and if DoD decides it wants a bunch of spy satellites or whatnot in orbit, you could see the percentage growing, along with their total revenue ofc.

It's just far from "completely dependent" which was my only objection.

Starlink obviously a huge part - $11½b revenue in 2025.

horsawlarway 37 minutes ago|||
I guess I don't consider leadership integrity and honesty to be "peanuts".

If anything - as an investor I'd call those core concerns about how I'll make my money back.

Further... this company isn't actually making ANY DAMN MONEY. Of the bundled orgs, only Starlink is profitable, and not profitable enough to offset the losses on spaceX and xAI/Grok. (starlink +4b, spacex -700mm, xAI -6b = -2.7b..., with 30b in debt).

So... no... right now this company is not "Coca-Cola". And that delusional comparison is part of why I think it's correct to be wary right now. On a scale between Enron and Coke... I'd wager we're closer to Enron.

I'll pick up some shares by default given the ETFs I'm in anyways, and that's enough for me...

Octoth0rpe 1 hour ago||||
> Imagine not wanting to own a piece of the first company to make a re-usable orbital class booster.

They didn't say they didn't want to own it, they said they wanted to own it at a : "90% discount after the IPO and the next tech / AI correction."

It is possible for a company to be both technically impressive and horrifically overvalued.

hparadiz 1 hour ago||
I think it's undervalued.
amanaplanacanal 1 hour ago|||
Have you looked at the S1? The valuation is not based on launchers, it's based on all the potential money they can make as an AI company. Given that they are probably not even in the top 10 in that business, it's just pie in the sky.
anonymars 43 minutes ago||
Welp, if enough people think like the other fella, line will go up and money will be made

Something about finding out who's swimming naked once the tide goes out

FireBeyond 36 minutes ago||||
Great, you have an opportunity to make bank, then, no?
lostlogin 1 hour ago|||
If Musk thought that, why would he need to have all the rules changed?
rchaud 1 hour ago||||
With this governance structure, you won't actually own anything. Ownership implies that you have a say as a shareholder.
wombatpm 1 hour ago||||
SpaceX is now an AI company with a rocket side hustle. At least that’s how the S1 looks.
petesergeant 1 hour ago||||
This implies there's no price at which owning SpaceX is a bad idea, which is obvious nonsense.
mrhottakes 35 minutes ago||||
Imagine ignoring actual financial reality because Wow Big Rocket Go Up!!!
Octoth0rpe 30 minutes ago||
To be fair, they're ignoring reality because the big rocket comes _down_ :P
twalla 1 hour ago||||
I'd love to own SpaceX - what I don't want to own is all the unprofitable, toxic dogshit its ketamine-addled CEO folded into it that has nothing to do with putting stuff into orbit or selling Starlink.
malcolmgreaves 1 hour ago||||
Don’t make emotional investment decisions!
bix6 1 hour ago||||
Imagine buying the most overvalued company of all time helmed by a crazy man who does Nazi salutes. Payback period? Who cares! Orbital class booster yayyyy
MadxX79 43 minutes ago||
Say what you want about nazis, but they are good at rockets.
43fg 1 hour ago|||
[dead]
formvoltron 1 hour ago||
prediction: SpaceX will not escape Earth's gravity. Meaning... what goes up will come down.
jmyeet 1 hour ago||
The part that gets me is that changing of the rules by exchanges and financial regulators to essentially force mass purchases on a small float. That's disgusting and in a just world, those people would go to jail.

The funny part of all this is that SpaceX has achieved a lot but what might break them, or at least weigh them down heavily, is the impulsive and forced purchase of Twitter. Before anyone claims it was some kind of master plan, Elon went to court to get out of it but was forced into it [1].

What happened? Mass firings, pushing his own tweets because his fragile ego couldn't handle Joe Biden getting more likes [2] and Twitter opened the floodgates for hate speech [3] and worse [4]. Advertisers fled. Fidelity (who foolishly was part of the acquisition) massively wrote down the value [5]. Elon had used Tesla shares as collateral and was possibly facing a margin call.

How did he get out of it? Well, in 2023 Elon founded xAI to challenge OpenAI. People invested in this for some reason. And by 2025, Elon merged Twitter with xAI, overvaluing Twitter at $33 billion (which is still down 25% from the purchase) [6].

Now, I imagine the xAI investors were unhappy with Elon using xAI to bail out himself so what did he do? Easy. Make SpaceX acquire xAI of course [7].

Thing is, xAI and Twitter/Grok are a massive drain on SpaceX's finances, losing more than $10 billion annually allegedly [8].

Twitter did not have to end up as part of SpaceX. SpaceX would've been a better company without it. SpaceX already faces headwinds from the incredibly expensive and behind-schedule Starship program. Part of all of this regulatory fixing is to make sure the insiders (and Elon himself) get bailed out.

It's also not the first time [9].

[1]: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/elon-musk-offers-to-end...

[2]: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/feb/15/elon-musk...

[3]: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/02/technology/twitter-hate-s...

[4]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/07/27/twitter...

[5]: https://www.axios.com/2023/10/29/fidelity-twitter-x-value-el...

[6]: https://www.fintechweekly.com/magazine/articles/xai-acquires...

[7]: https://www.reuters.com/business/musks-spacex-merge-with-xai...

[8]: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-06-17/musk-s-xa...

[9]: https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/21/13698314/tesla-completes...

ArchieScrivener 1 hour ago||
[dead]
kingleopold 2 hours ago||
[flagged]
parliament32 1 hour ago||
Why would you expect "future growth" from something that's literally making negative dollars? If you take a step back it makes zero sense.
leopoldj 2 hours ago||
New York City Comptrollers published similar concerns [1]. I suppose you could apply your point equally to NYC these days :-)

1. https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/letter-to-spacex-re-ipo-...

rayiner 1 hour ago|||
NYC puts the "c" in "catastrophic governance."
malcolmgreaves 1 hour ago||
With their balanced budget and no social services cut?
rayiner 1 hour ago||
What "balanced budget?" Mamdani got a massive bailout from the state of New York, and deferred pension payments.

It's classic third worldism, made possible by a low-information electorate that not only can't do the math, but lacks instinctual skepticism of the idea of a free lunch. Chicago went down the same path, and found that these gimmicks work until they don't.

kingleopold 2 hours ago|||
YES, remember who they elected in NYC :)
BigTTYGothGF 1 hour ago|||
It's pretty surprising considering all the bums they've elected over the previous few decades.
malcolmgreaves 1 hour ago|||
A mayor who balanced the city’s budget.
DivingForGold 2 hours ago||
[flagged]
gmerc 1 hour ago|
Calm down Grok
hparadiz 2 hours ago|
[flagged]
wizzwizz4 1 hour ago||
Can you provide an example of a history book that lists minor shareholders of companies?
hparadiz 1 hour ago|||
https://old.reddit.com/r/EconomicHistory/comments/zynvvq/who...

Their names are known and are part of history now. Maybe not famous but certainly better than being a forgotten weathered tomb stone after 5 centuries.

NuclearPM 1 hour ago||
???