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Posted by Kye 4 hours ago

KDE at 30(kde.org)
142 points | 60 commentspage 2
tycoon666 2 hours ago|
KDE beta2 was my first.
redsocksfan45 2 hours ago||
[dead]
Kye 4 hours ago||
[flagged]
retardsinoss 3 hours ago||
[flagged]
voidfunc 3 hours ago|||
Found the edge lord. You gotta step up your troll game, this is weak. Grok can do better.
doubletwoyou 3 hours ago|||
What are you talking about mate? It’s just a cute little mascot?
steve1977 3 hours ago||
I think Hacker News? Not sure though...
chekibreki 3 hours ago||
I lament the times when open source projects were open source software projects instead of political platforms for people who arrogantly think that their private political opinion is important enough to overshadow the project they participate in.

This will undoubtedly create tensions and will lead to fewer donations, thus having a negative impact on KDE.

sham1 3 hours ago|||
The Free Software community has always been political. Where have you been?

Introducing a non-binary mascot for KDE is no more or less political than for example Richard Stallman demanding that printer drivers should be free, back in the 1980s. And same way the use and preference of the term "open source" over "free software" -- or vice versa -- is also very political because it depends on if one wants to go with the described values or not necessarily want to stand behind them.

The Free software community involves people, and with people come shared values and politics. That's kinda what "community" implies. And if we really want to go into it, given the circumstances of the invention of things like computers, the Internet, etc. it'd be very erroneous to asset that software in general has ever been value-free or non-political. Computing artillery trajectories is political just the same way as promotion of LGBTQ+ people, even if people get more upset about the latter rather than the more kinetic kinds of politics implied by howitzers et al.

chekibreki 2 hours ago|||
Your comparison is dishonest and wrong. printer drivers are a piece of software, sexual orientation is completely disconnected from software or technology.
sham1 2 hours ago||
This implies that the difference actually matters. In both cases there is a political goal behind the actions. Yes, printer driver software itself is very different from sexual and gender orientation, but wanting for the printer drivers to be free is a political statement and principle, and so is the uplift of LGBTQ+ people and celebrations of PRIDE month. Both are political despite being about distinct subject matters.

You can disagree with the politics in question, but to say that FLOSS has no room for politics is itself a political position, leading you to a paradox!

chekibreki 2 hours ago||
Yes, it matters. You can try to distract and do as much mental gymnastics as you want but everyone rational can clearly see that one thing is doing politics for software (free drivers, open source, no DRM, …) and the other is about virtue signaling about subjects that are completely unrelated.

Btw, feel free to label me however you want (others did already), which shows that they have no arguments and resort to pidgeonholeing and name calling.

sham1 2 hours ago||
> Yes, it matters.

Does it actually matter? And if so, why?

> You can try to distract and do as much mental gymnastics as you want but everyone rational can clearly see that one thing is doing politics for software (free drivers, open source, no DRM, …) and the other is about virtue signaling about subjects that are completely unrelated.

Okay, but you would still have to answer a really important question. Why does it matter?

Let's say that it's virtue signalling, for the sake of the argument (although people tend to not know what virtue signalling actually is, and just claim any public acknowledgement of one's values as such, which is incorrect).

So, why does one being virtue signalling and the other not being such actually matter? Does it actually change the messaging in any meaningful way? Does it make it less legitimate or whatever?

> Btw, feel free to label me however you want (others did already), which shows that they have no arguments and resort to pidgeonholeing and name calling.

I wasn't going to, but thank you for the invitation!

retardsinoss 2 hours ago|||
[flagged]
enragedcacti 3 hours ago||||
It's Pride Month and the organization is doing Pride things, its not that complicated.

> This will undoubtedly create tensions and will lead to fewer donations, thus having a negative impact on KDE.

"undoubtedly" is absurd here. Does KDE really have a stable of consistent transphobes donating? Do they outweigh additional donations from supporting the LGBTQ community?

Regardless, if the only point of KDE were to make money it wouldn't be a non-profit. Extremely passionate people are often passionate about a lot of things beyond just what you want from them. KDE is a community project and that community loves and accepts non-binary people.

retardsinoss 2 hours ago||
[flagged]
mhurron 3 hours ago||||
> open source software projects instead of political platforms

OSS and FOSS movements themselves were political platforms, so this has never been true. Your problem is that you just have some issue with this one

graypegg 3 hours ago||||
With all due respect: it is just a picture of a cute lizard.

Thinking practically, having a male and female lizard is sort of inconvenient for a mascot, since leaving one out is a message in itself. Having a genderless mascot with art assets ready to go makes practical sense to me.

F3nd0 3 hours ago|||
The presented mascot is not genderless, but non-binary. The situation you describe has hardly improved with their introduction.
adjfasn47573 3 hours ago||||
> since leaving one out is a message in itself

Side question: why would having a male or female mascot be "a message in itself"? Why do people want to see a message, and especially a $currentDayPolitics one, in every single thing? A mascot can be a cute mascot without having to represent anything more than exactly that.

Just as a random example: Let's say some OG founder of a project had a cute dog named Laila, and the project makes this dog its mascot. Why should that be a problem, AT ALL?

And what's even worse, if you think this "everything has a message and we have to be super careful what the message is" thing through, the conclusion is: No project ever again can have a solely male or female mascot. Which is of course absurd.

And this whole "we need to send the RIGHT message" thing falls apart with time anyway, because what the right message is, WILL change over time. You're not at the end of all human enlightenment.

graypegg 3 hours ago|||
I mean it's not a HUGE issue by any means, just sort of inconvenient.

Like, most mascots aren't in gendered pairs normally (like your dog example!), you just have 1 option to represent the thing. People see Laila the dog and think "oh yeah, LailaOS".

But given you have 2 mascots, with 1 being pretty ambiguous, but the other being dressed in a pink dress with bows, it does mean you probably want to use both when presenting KDE, just so you're not accidentally saying "this is the KDE event for men" or "this is the KDE event for women". If you made your mascot the AIGA bathroom symbols, you'd have the same issue.

My thinking about the "right" message is just that... I don't think that's what they want to tell people right now, in our current time. Everyone can use KDE. It's not a historical impact sort of thing.

Again, not a huge issue really. Just seems practical. Hopefully I'm getting that across. Sorry if I'm not.

retardsinoss 3 hours ago|||
[flagged]
jl6 3 hours ago||||
They could have hung a Star of David pendant around its neck and it would still have been “just” a cute lizard, and surely only an anti-Semite would object to such neutral, normalizing messaging?
mongol 3 hours ago|||
No it is not just a picture, it is also a descriptive text and specific emojis attached. I don't think anyone would have raised an eye if it was just for the picture.
steve1977 3 hours ago||||
For many people open source is political.
voidfunc 3 hours ago||||
I used to think this way but with the rise of fascism pretty much everywhere I think it's important to know what I am consuming and what they support now.

Is it perfect? No. Does it piss some people off? Probably, and I don't care.

Also it's a cute fucking lizard.

retardsinoss 2 hours ago||
[flagged]
YorickPeterse 2 hours ago||||
This is just concern trolling, so let's not pretend otherwise.

If a non-binary mascot "creates tensions" then by all accounts you should go outside and touch some grass.

F3nd0 2 hours ago||
I think it’s a little different to simply have the mascot than it is to make their introduction an officially endorsed celebration of ‘pride month’ and have them ‘presiding over KDE’s 30th anniversary celebrations’. If something has a greater chance to ‘create tensions’, it’s probably the latter, for better or worse.
stusmall 3 hours ago||||
Honestly, when was open source not political? Look at early GNU writing. The topics have change but it being political absolutely have not.
thewebguyd 3 hours ago||
Minor nitpick but s/open source/free software

But yes, the free software movement is political, and the FSF is by all intents a political organization with a specific political goal and message.

Politics is multifaceted, it doesn't purely relate to government either. Politics is how humans decide who gets what, when and how. You can't run a community or organization without politics.

stusmall 11 minutes ago||
That's a minor nitpick that probably worth making in this context. People often casually use free and open interchangeably, like the the person I responded to did. There are times when it does have a real semantic difference in meaning... but here? Not really. The thread is even about a free software project.

I agree with the rest of what you say. Politics, governance and identity are unavoidable in any kind of community. It's just part of it and unavoidable. It's about dealing with it fairly, clearly and with respect.

basisword 2 hours ago|||
Since when was someone's gender or sexuality a "political opinion"?
iLoveOncall 3 hours ago|
I feel quite repulsed by the fact that the first thing you see when opening the post is a huge donation card.
sph 1 hour ago||
This comment is like that 'no take, only throw' meme.

I want free software. Don't ask for donations, just give me free software.

Rooster61 1 hour ago|||
My tolerance for donation begging is directly proportional to how A) non-evil the thing is asking for the donations and B) how much utility I get out of said thing. KDE, personally, falls squarely into the "By all means, beg" category. I use their stuff every day for free, and their hard work deserves recompense.
sgc 1 hour ago|||
I used to feel that way about prominent banners / cards. Then I tried to get donations on my own site and until I became hyper-aggressive I never received even a dollar. It was frankly disheartening. Now, it is not yet sustainable but at least moving in the right direction. In other words, they really have no choice.
Kye 2 hours ago|||
I want to see KDE still improving and keeping up in another 30 years. To me it's no different from a telethon for PBS or a poster for Friends of the Library. Intrusive? From a certain point of view, but it pays the bills.
0x1ceb00da 1 hour ago||
How much do you donate?