Posted by zvr 11 hours ago
This just feels like something that has always been true. Defending attribution in this way feels more like a panicked gatekeeping rather than something valuable and principled. I’m a bit disappointed to see people like Terence Tao endorse this.
The bar for being cited has never been lower in the history of mathematics: getting an arXiv account is easier than getting a lobste.rs account (at least by my experience, for I have the former but not the latter).
Tao knows what he is talking about, he was an early adopter of LLMs for proof-generation.
> In September 2025 the Lorentz Center at Leiden University in the Netherlands hosted a conference entitled Mechanization and Mathematical Research. The around 60 participants from 10 countries comprised mathematicians, computer scientists, philosophers, historians and social scientists, including those with experience in industry and in government.
2. then they laugh at you <<<< the International Math Olympiad is basically just high school math
3. then they fight you <<<< this declaration
4. then you win
Did you do this on purpose to anger both Mathematicians and keen spellers?
1. AI proofs might be incorrect and difficult to demonstrate why. This implies they are not like human proofs in these qualities.
2. AI proofs are difficult to attribute correctly, because they don't follow established traditions. Nothing to do with the math, but ok.
3. Mathematicians without AI (for political or practical reasons) will not necessarily be able to participate in AI-assisted research. This history of Mathematics is littered with people having uneven access.
4. People/orgs are publishing that AI found things are fact before they are properly evaluated. Same issue.
5. All these things are bad, because AI might muddy the field with lots of unknowns.
1. pertains to the quantity of output adding stress to review processes; LLMs can feasibly produce a million plausible but incorrect 'proofs' in the time that a human can produce one. We already see this effect in software development, with bug bounty programs shutting down and open-source software rejecting AI contributions or closing altogether because LLMs flood review channels with an amount of spam for which there is no sufficient amount of human bandwidth to handle.
2. is nothing about "following established traditions" but rather the general concept of crediting people for their prior work, unless you think that "not plagiarising" is a trifling established tradition.
3. is more or less accurate to the point they made, but "it has historically been this way" isn't a compelling justification for "it should always be this way and also it's okay if it gets worse"
4. An existing issue being made 100x more common is a point worth bringing attention to even if it already existed, actually
5. said nothing that could possibly be interpreted in the vein of "muddying the field with lots of unknowns" at all. Point 5 was actually about economic incentives and the risk of mathematic research becoming beholden to tech monopolies
But that is the nature of establishment, when something is a sufficiently firmly established tradition, people see it as a truism.
Crediting people is a social convention. Plagiarism is a social construct. It can be useful, in many areas of science, to reference to support your arguments. This is less important in proofs, because a proof is a proof, but references aid in understanding.
These are all reasons to reference and attribute that benefit the writer, and could be done voluntarily. The notion of a duty to reference or attribute has no impact on the validity of the claims being made. It is a collective decision to proportion prestige.
Turning the duty to do so into an unquestioned truism means it has to be done regardless of whether it accurately represents any property of merit.
There are many instances where prestige delivered grossly mismatches what an impartial observer would consider a fair balance of effort and ability.
We should at least recognise that this is so because we have chosen to let it be this way.
Despite the fact that there are some dishonest researchers, who attempt to create the illusion that their work is revolutionary and does not owe anything or only very little to predecessors, the truth is that almost anything novel that is published today contains only a few percent of truly new ideas that are grafted on a big body that combines many results extracted for older works.
If a new research paper separates properly its new elements from the old elements, which are properly attributed, enabling the search of the original sources, that can help a lot the readers to understand it.
I consider the fact that when you ask a question to an LLM, it is unable to accurately provide the source of the answer, as their greatest defect.
> 2. is nothing about "following established traditions"
> undermine the traditional system of attribution
Literally does.
Suffice to say, I find your interpretations to be surprising and disconnected and it has not changed my views.
Plagiarism is a minor concern in research papers. Plagiarism means that the paper has 0% new content and everything in it is extracted from older works and combined.
However, even very valuable research papers may have only 1 new idea or only a few new ideas, which can be applied only together with a much greater amount of old knowledge, which might be mentioned explicitly in the paper, with proper attribution, enabling the reader to search the original sources, or the necessary old knowledge may be implicit, the writers assuming it to be known by the readers.
It is important that the writers should not imply that some old idea is new, by omitting to attribute it, but much more important is that when they mention some ideas as being old, they must also provide sufficient information about the sources of those old ideas, so that the readers will be able to access them.