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Posted by rvz 1 hour ago

Gemma 4 12B: A unified, encoder-free multimodal model(blog.google)
180 points | 66 comments
minimaxir 56 minutes ago|
The big story here is the encoder-free part, which I still don't fully understand.

> Vision: We replaced Gemma 4’s vision encoder with a lightweight embedding module consisting of a single matrix multiplication, positional embedding and normalizations.

That's technically encoding, just without using a dedicated model for it like SigLIP? The Developer's Guide elaborates, it's still a 35M layer which I am curious is robust enough. https://developers.googleblog.com/gemma-4-12b-the-developer-...

> Small enough to run locally on consumer laptops with 16GB of RAM, it unlocks powerful multimodal and agentic experiences right on your machine.

I am assuming that involves quantization, which due to the quality loss makes that statement somewhat misleading IMO.

mchinen 2 minutes ago||
The audio side is even more interesting, as it seems they totally got rid of positional embedding are just doing a single linear transform to match the LLM input dimension and that's it.

> Audio: We simplified audio processing even further. We removed the audio encoder entirely and projected the raw audio signal into the same dimensional space as text tokens.

georgehm 16 minutes ago|||
Embedded within that developer page is a good explainer of the encoder free architecture . https://newsletter.maartengrootendorst.com/p/a-visual-guide-...
rao-v 2 minutes ago|||
Encoder free is huge for running on SBCs etc. often the encoding time is a significant fraction of generation time if you are using a VLM as a all purpose vision model
jszymborski 50 minutes ago|||
Totally agree that it is "encoding" in the general sense, but I think they are referring to the lack of an "encoder" neural network.
minimaxir 48 minutes ago||
In hindsight I may have been pedantic.
alberto467 19 minutes ago|||
Not at all. Getting really pedantic, tokenization is also a form of encoding, so it doesn't matter the modality you're using, you'll end up doing some type of encoding in some way.
wilkystyle 23 minutes ago|||
I had a similar thought to you, and found your question and the resulting discussion helpful!
matja 24 minutes ago|||
One side-effect, is that the separate .mmproj file (Multi-Modal Projection encoder) is no longer needed, when using the model with llama.cpp etc.
kristjansson 52 minutes ago|||
> quantization

12b means 12G @ 8 bits/param (basically lossless) and 6G at 4 b/p (generally accepted 'pretty close' level). Not too bad?

But TBD how well the base model performs before thinking too much about quantization

reactordev 50 minutes ago|||
It actually works well because unlike encoders, the latent space is trained on that initial layer so it “knows” what to do with that sparse density. I’ve been using gemma4-12b with Flux2 and its ability to reason on visual input is pretty good. That said, each model is good in their own ways so YMMV but overall, it’s about as solid as Qwen just with a more advanced architecture.
wolttam 47 minutes ago|||
I think the idea is that the model is seeing embeddings that map directly to underlying pixel data, rather than being fed semantically rich embeddings from an encoder model which itself had seen the raw pixel data.
LarsDu88 49 minutes ago|||
Well its a real simple encoder I guess
GaggiX 52 minutes ago|||
> That's technically encoding

Isn't that just projecting the patches into the d_model size vectors that the models takes?

>I am assuming that involves of quantization

12B model in 16GB seems very reasonable to me, int8 is top quality for running models.

minimaxir 46 minutes ago||
The guide describes it as projection although there is apparently an extra step: "A factorized coordinate lookup (X and Y matrices) attaches spatial location information directly to the input."

12B at int8 would take up 12G memory, or 75% of the system memory which technically fits within 16GB but the OS will not like that.

fushigokira 49 minutes ago||
[dead]
ethanpil 46 minutes ago||
What's Google's business case for releasing open models? Don't get me wrong, I am grateful and appreciative of these releases. I'm trying to understand how it fits into their bigger picture as a for profit company? Are they not helping competitors build on the novel technology they have developed?

Is it simply goodwill and/or marketing? Or am I missing something strategic?

browningstreet 39 minutes ago||
This won't replace commercially viable, revenue generating alternatives of their own devising, but it does enable development activity and initiate conversations with enterprises who start with this model but want to do slightly more.

That's my experience right now... my company is all in on a plethora of platform products. Also, Microsoft just yesterday said their goal was "Unmetered intelligence". There's a lot of things that can be enabled by small local models, and those things are part of stacks that can generate revenue in other layers.

gen220 7 minutes ago|||
A big part of the frontier labs abilities to charge 80% gross margins on inference is having the cornered resource of frontier models.

If that inference becomes popular and valuable enough that those companies make billions of dollars in profit, those companies could use that profit to fund the building of alternative products and platforms that dis-intermediate google's relationship with the customer.

Google already has an 80% gross margin business, the biggest one in the world. Everybody wants a slice of it.

By offering frontier inference closer to cost and open-sourcing everything that's sub-frontier, they're commoditizing frontier labs' models, which inhibits their ability to durably make high gross margins on inference.

It's a strategic play.

zozbot234 4 minutes ago||
A 12B-sized model is a far cry from "frontier inference". That's more like DeepSeek V4 Pro territory which is a 1.6T model. Or for multi-modal models, Kimi 2.6 which is 1T.
Mr_P 34 minutes ago|||
Android and Chrome need on-device AI capabilities. Google can't lock down those weights like it can with server-side ML.

So it's easier to just release those models as open source and make it official, since someone would inevitably hack the weights out anyway.

Aachen 23 minutes ago||
Could say the same for camera processing in the Pixel Camera app or any other binary someone wants to re-use that comes included in a software distribution (seemingly for 'free'). They can't lock the instructions up on the server so they might as well make the binary be freely distributable?

Companies don't commonly give away executable binaries "just because", why'd they start now for these binary blobs that are the models?

Not that I'm unhappy about it! Yay for open data any day, I'm just not understanding why, at least beyond PR in nerd circles

jack_pp 4 minutes ago||
Because a model like this can't be as easily obfuscated as image processing. Image processing is a bundle of many moving parts, a lot of functions each with it's own inputs and outputs. A model is a single function which can be easily extracted and reused, in comparison
beambot 23 minutes ago|||
Google is one of the few verticalized options in AI: Data, models, cloud services, low-level silicon (TPUs), internal use cases, retail use cases, B2B uses, distribution (browser & mobile), etc.

They rise with the tide of AI adoption. But they gain ground if people opt into Google solutions. And any token sent to a Google model (free or paid) actively punishes their competitors that are then required to spend vast sums to remain bleeding edge.

onlyrealcuzzo 40 minutes ago|||
If you're an AI lab, you definitely want research teams in this space - as this is where you can most easily iterate and make improvements which you'll then bake into larger, frontier models.

The question is: do you want to release your models, or use them purely for R&D?

Since everyone else is already releasing models of similar qualities, it's hard to say you're shooting yourself in the foot if you join the chorus.

The added cannibalization of releasing them is effectively zero, so the reputational benefits are likely to be worth it.

staticman2 7 minutes ago|||
As long as Chinese firms are releasing good open models I imagine there isn't a huge downside for Google to release state of the art small models to compete in the "free" space.
estearum 40 minutes ago|||
It's to destroy possible footholds for competitors and prevent them from making money in segments that Google doesn't care too much about, but can trivially commoditize.
rootusrootus 34 minutes ago|||
Neutering OpenAI and Anthropic would be my guess. Commoditized LLMs won't hurt Google nearly as much as it hurts the LLM-only companies, and so accelerating the inevitable just helps knock out potential future competition in areas where Google -does- make a lot of money now.
theturtletalks 41 minutes ago|||
Maybe they are hedging against a future where local models are just as good as cloud models? Or maybe they can go the Taalas route and start hardcoding Gemma on a chip and hardware manufacturers can use it for local private AI.
ppeetteerr 37 minutes ago|||
Isn't Apple about to license some variation of this from google for on-device AI? Maybe it’s their sales pitch to Apple and then they will lock it down.
stevenhubertron 26 minutes ago|||
My guess is testing for Apple’s Siri replacement and partnership but that’s a total SWAG
CuriouslyC 38 minutes ago|||
They're trying to capture the segment of the market that wants to control the model, with the intent of getting you to run them on Vertex.
dist-epoch 14 minutes ago|||
Evangelism for AI. Google is one of the big AI providers.

Eventually the local model is not enough, and you'll upgrade to the big ones.

mmarian 44 minutes ago|||
Marketing + Pro Serv if I had to take a guess.
accountrequired 37 minutes ago|||
edge compute
superchicken099 39 minutes ago|||
Gemma overtakes and kills real open-source AI projects, pushing people who would support them towards enterprises like Google
XzAeRosho 42 minutes ago||
Google's MO since always has been to release great products or services for free, position themselves high and then abandon them or just find uses for Enterprise sales.

I'm pretty sure they are doing it because they get some research experience by shrinking and improving these models, and because they know that by doing this they get some good PR among the dev community.

Aachen 19 minutes ago||
Google's "free" is and was ad-supported, even if some products now have a paid tier. These models don't include ads. Doesn't seem like the same underlying reason
lxgr 12 minutes ago||
Am I missing something or are the Ollama versions of this (https://ollama.com/library/gemma4/tags) text-only for now?
philipkglass 10 minutes ago|
Since ollama has diverged from llama.cpp, it will take a bit of time for ollama to support multi-modality. If you're using plain llama.cpp it looks like a PR has already merged for this model with vision and audio support:

https://github.com/ggml-org/llama.cpp/pull/24077/changes

ComputerGuru 14 minutes ago||
Quite aside from the architectural changes, I suppose this is the answer to why Google had such a glaring hole in the (pretrained) Gemma4 model lineup between the Gemma4 4b and Gemma4 26b models!

A model that comfortably fits in 16GB of VRAM (allowing room for context) is a welcome upgrade.

Havoc 18 minutes ago||
Quite a niche release. The MoE outperforms it on score and will likely be faster thanks to lower active weights. So this really only makes sense for specific ram constrained applications that can’t fit a quantized MoE
dist-epoch 12 minutes ago|
The un-quantized MoE outperforms it.

But between same (V)RAM requirement 4 bit 26B-A3B and 8 bit 12B it's unclear which one will win, especially given one is MoE and the other dense.

All the launch benchmarks are at 16 bit.

Zambyte 33 minutes ago||
Is this Mac only? Or is that an Ollama issue that it only supports this release of models on Mac? It seems like every tag with the MLX badge is only supported on Mac[0], and that includes all of the tags in this release.

[0] https://ollama.com/library/gemma4/tags

Edit: MLX being Mac-only is independent of the model being MLX (and therefore Mac) only. The latter is what I am asking about.

embedding-shape 27 minutes ago||
MLX is quite literally macOS-specific technology, for other platforms you want non-MLX.

I was sure "MLX" stood for "Metal-something-something" but can't find any reference to that somehow, anywho, "Metal" is hardware-accelerated graphics on Apple platforms FWIW.

Edit: about the actual release on Ollama, if you're on non-Apple hardware you probably want the NVFP4 variant ("gemma4:12b-nvfp4") which was uploaded 45 minutes ago, especially if you're with a recent nvidia GPU.

sambaumann 2 minutes ago||
[delayed]
jasonjmcghee 4 minutes ago|||
There's a CUDA backend for MLX now. Not sure about the maturity.
jw1224 24 minutes ago||
MLX is Apple’s own machine learning framework, designed for Apple Silicon: https://opensource.apple.com/projects/mlx/
dwa3592 37 minutes ago||
This is a pretty good update. The demo video is a bit funny though - the tester asks to turn the release into bullet points. okay, the model obliges. then the tester says draft an email with this content. BAM! the LLM turns the content from bullets to passages even though it was not asked and it undid the last good thing that it did. i am not sure if it's an email etiquette to not put bullets in the email.
randomNumber7 33 minutes ago||
> Novel unified architecture: No multimodal encoders. The vision and audio inputs flow directly into the LLM backbone.

I would be interested in how this actually works. I couldn't find a description of the model architecture (and I did check the links in the Google blog)

djyde 31 minutes ago||
What are the use cases for these small models? Is there anyone using models of this scale in their daily life who could share their experience?
Aachen 13 minutes ago||
"Small" models are the ones I can run myself on my own terms. LLMs aren't useful enough for me to justify spending hundreds of euros on a GPU with 16GB VRAM or something, and that's assuming I have the rest of the desktop just laying around. Back when I checked (before the RAM price hike), these models weren't meaningfully better than 4-8GB ones anyway, you'd have to go for the top tier cards at 24 or 32 GB iirc to get something vaguely in the direction of the SaaS versions, and that was absolutely out of my budget. Even if that changed, so have hardware prices so it'd probably still work out the same
Xiol 14 minutes ago||
I've yet to see someone answer a question like this with a decent, useful answer.
BiraIgnacio 13 minutes ago|
using an embedder instead of a decoder is quite clever. Not sure who came up with that first but it's a cool idea.
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