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Posted by mooreds 8 hours ago

Ian's Secure Shoelace Knot(www.fieggen.com)
321 points | 130 commentspage 2
delichon 5 hours ago|
When I was six or seven my older brother untied my shoelaces when I wasn't looking, and I tripped on them and almost fell down. This was apparently a traumatic event for me since it has affected my behavior ever since. I've double-knotted my shoelaces every time since then, usually remembering why. For about the last 57 years. When I was about 12 the same brother tried it again and failed due to the double knot. It was a moment of triumph.

But the double knot still sometimes comes untied somehow so I've never been entirely happy with it. Maybe if I take the effort to overcome my muscle memory and learn Ian's knot, it will quell the PTSD from being victimized at a young age and I can find inner peace.

xp84 3 hours ago||
I'm excited for you - this knot works incredibly well at staying tied, but what's even better is that compared to the standard "double knot" this is much, much easier for you to purposely untie - simply pull the string like the "traditional" knot.

Now, maybe that would have been a flaw with that pesky prankster brother of yours around, but I bet it'll be a positive now. Try it!

deepsun 4 hours ago||
Every person has many such events in their childhood. Just previously we called that "learning", now we call that "victim" and "PTSD".
xp84 3 hours ago||
I adopted this about a decade ago as what I tie shoes with, and I have done it for things like my kids' athletic shoes. And the advice about the accidental granny knot[1] is really life-changing. For anyone whose bow sits vertically after tying and whose shoes come untied spontaneously, you need to spend the 5 minutes to understand this. It's a free life upgrade.

On a related note, I have taken to replacing standard shoelaces on all my shoes as soon as I buy them with these elastic shoelaces with buckles[2]. You don't even have to unbuckle them, basically all your shoes become slip-ons. Probably not applicable if you're playing basketball or running track, but they work fine, look clean, and completely remove the need to ever tie laces. Highly recommend and you can buy them for like $1 each from sites like aliexpress or temu, I'm sure Amazon has them for $7 or so too.

[1] https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/grannyknot.htm

[2] https://www.aliexpress.us/w/wholesale-elastic-shoelaces.html...

johsole 1 hour ago||
Like many I also discovered this about 10 years ago and love.

One other thing I've been doing lately is also to use bar lacing instead of cross lacing. A small change that makes shoes much more comfortable.

SwellJoe 4 hours ago||
I always use this site as a canonical example of The Good Internet. The kind of site that is rare today but used to be most of the internet, and we're all worse off for the change.

Lightweight handmade HTML and CSS. Very little JavaScript. The site is fast as hell, instant transition between pages, it'd make a React SPA blush.

The URLs don't change. The navigation is familiar and unchanging. Back button works as expected. Bookmarks into the site don't break.

It costs him almost nothing to run, so he isn't compelled to fill the pages with bullshit ads that disrupt or interrupt. It's got a handful of ad banners at the top and bottom, as ads used to be. I'd prefer it had no Google ads, since surveillance is part of the deal one makes with Google, but it's not the worst offense.

Edit: Also, because it uses core/standard web technologies exclusively, he has never been required to change it to keep it working or update a bunch of stuff for security reasons. Maintenance cost is effectively zero...whenever he wants to work on the the site, he can. He's never been compelled to drop everything to perform npm acrobatics to get a security update rolled out.

angiolillo 3 hours ago||
> It costs him almost nothing to run

> Maintenance cost is effectively zero...

His estimates[1] of ongoing costs seem different:

> I spend probably 60 hours a week continuously improving this website, answering visitors' questions, solving their shoelace problems – even granting permission for my material to be re-used by other educators.

> All of this effort earns me less than 1/5 of the Australian National Minimum Wage.

> I'm thinking of calling this my “Million Dollar Website” – not because it's worth a million dollars but because it has cost me a million dollars compared to what I could have earned at a regular job (based on an average Australian annual wage of $50,000 × 25+ years).

Granted it seems like you're commenting just on the cost of maintaining the site's HTML/CSS, and I agree that making the website simpler reduces those costs. But even with more complex websites the development costs are often less than the cost of developing good content, attracting people to your site, paying for hosting, etc.

[1] https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/support.htm

LeifCarrotson 2 hours ago|||
Content creating is not maintenance. And hosting of a static site is dirt cheap, caching works flawlessly.

It could've been a two-million-dollar website if he'd tried to roll his own CMS and Javascript framework, for zero benefit over the one-million-dollar website he actually built.

SwellJoe 2 hours ago|||
OK, that feels like a choice.
xp84 3 hours ago|||
Wow, he even made navigation that puts the links on little shoelace ends. Indeed, this is the kind of thing that was widespread, and which the soulless modern net never has.
SwellJoe 3 hours ago||
A tremendous amount of care went into the site, and it shows.
Wistar 3 hours ago|||
The site owner, Ian, says he is seeking an alternative to google ads. Seems the site may be struggling financially.

https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/support.htm

SwellJoe 3 hours ago|||
That's the worst thing about Google Ads. Google keeps an absurd amount of the money, and they punish your users. And, of course, ads in general became so abusive and intrusive that everyone uses an ad blocker, making ads less effective as a revenue source.

But, I don't see how a static HTML site could be a struggle to keep running. It costs almost nothing to host something like that, even with a lot of traffic. I guess if one wanted to make a living off of it, it'd be a struggle.

sunshowers 3 hours ago|||
Thank you for the link! Just donated. That site changed my life in a small but persistent way — my shoelaces haven't come undone in more than a decade now.
nopurpose 3 hours ago||
Which knot do you use?
sunshowers 2 hours ago||
The secure/double slip knot that's linked in the story. I practiced it a few times (making sure the knots are in opposite directions took a bit of retraining muscle memory) and can tie it by heart now.
goody71 3 hours ago|||
another one I loved...I guess still love too https://sheldonbrown.com/fixed-conversion.html
SwellJoe 2 hours ago||
Ah, yeah, Sheldon Brown was great. I was sad when he passed (nearly two decades ago, now). I'm glad to see someone cares enough to keep his site running all these years later. It hasn't ever stopped being useful information.
nunez 2 hours ago|||
Yes, agreed. Website made out of love instead of desire for profit. Insanely useful information that's hard to find elsewhere. Timeless.
GuB-42 2 hours ago|||
> The kind of site that is rare today but used to be most of the internet, and we're all worse off for the change.

To me, it is not that these sites are rarer today than they once were. In fact, I think they are more of these today. It is just that the internet today is way bigger than it once was, and a lot of crap came with it. In fact, the web page dates back from 2000, and believe it or not, what is now known as enshittification was well on its way, though it was more Flash than Javascript. It was the peak of the dotcom bubble after all. The time such websites were "most of the internet" was more of a 1990s thing.

A site like Ian's Shoelace Site is not representative of its time any more than it is now, in that it was, and still is unusually good.

> Also, because it uses core/standard web technologies exclusively, he has never been required to change it to keep it working or update a bunch of stuff for security reasons.

On the client side, sure. On the server side, there is still maintenance to be done, especially with https where you have to manage certificates and their expiration, even though certbot make it simpler. But arguably, that's his host job and he just has to upload a bunch of html file, so you are right on that point. He still kept his page to modern standards, even though he wasn't required to (HTML 1.0 still works!).

emsixteen 2 hours ago||
> A site like Ian's Shoelace Site is not representative of its time any more than it is now

It very clearly is, though.

torben-friis 3 hours ago|||
You missed the most important part: the site provides something for free.

There's no "if you want to keep learning check my book/course". It's not a funnel entrance, it's not adversarial to you as a reader.

I really really miss being able to enjoy content keeping my guard down, not wondering what is a scam, astroturfing, political propaganda...

nosrepa 2 hours ago||
I would totally buy his book, even if it was only an offline copy of his site.
kgwxd 3 hours ago||
> I'd prefer it had no Google ads

The good thing about those ads is, it's your choice if they're allowed to run on your machines or not. Assuming your "user agent" isn't really an "ad industry agent".

SwellJoe 3 hours ago||
Yes, Ian doesn't do any bullshit with ad block detection or blocking. The site works fine with ads blocked. I'm reminded that there should be a tiered ad block tool. I would like to be able to not block traditional ad banners (an img tag and a link, maybe with an affiliate ID), like the ones on the sidebar of Ian's site, while still blocking the surveillance ads like Google serves. I know traditional ad banners don't perform all that well, but, as a user, they don't bother me at all...and, I'm far more likely to click them if they're really relevant to the site I'm looking at.

Honestly, the old way of doing ads was also The Good Internet. No surveillance, the people placing the ads needed to actually think about where to spend their money, the sites had to decide personally whether the ad fit their audience and ethics. The ad surveillance networks launder all the ethical questions into a wash of hateful attention stealing and tracking user behavior.

Semaphor 2 hours ago||
> I know traditional ad banners don't perform all that well

I’m not sure that’s always true. We have our own homegrown adserver that’s almost 100% context based (a few ads for stores do rudimentary IP geo-targeting, all purely first-party though), and it does well with both banners and text based ads. It’s in the digital photography niche. I’d assume generally places that are strongly oriented towards a niche can do a lot with context based advertisment. CTR is much better than for Google ads (that we also run).

SwellJoe 2 hours ago||
Yeah, I think publishers/advertisers are actually leaving money on the table by using Google ads instead of bespoke targeted ads from direct sponsors. It's a lot harder to manage ads without Google doing all the work, but they're better for readers and advertisers if there's a human with good taste and judgement in the loop.
dtj1123 6 hours ago||
I switched to Ian's original shoelace knot about ten years ago. It's saved me something like four hours of shoelace time since then. Bloody brilliant.
SockThief 5 hours ago||
I switched too and love it. It's arguably just a bit faster then the one I learned in childhood, but it's so much more reliable. I got couple of snickers I use daily and don't untie them at all, and the Ian's Knot [0] stays firmly knotted for months!

[0] https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ianknot.htm

linsomniac 6 hours ago||
I learned it around 5 years ago and it just makes tying my shoes feel so effortless, I also feel like it holds on a little better than the previous knot I was using. It took me a while to get the mechanics down.
liendolucas 2 hours ago||
It never occurred to me that I could tie shoes with a different knot. This is excellent. It takes a bit of practice to undo a lifetime habit of tying my shoes with a weak knot. Well worth it!

For some reason I have a pair of sneakers that they will always untie way many more times than any other shoes that I ever had, no matter how hard you make the regular knot. No more!

hangonhn 3 hours ago||
I've used this knot for almost 2 decades now since learning about it from this exact website. It looks really nice, easy to take apart on purpose, and has never come undone. I run 4 to 5 times a week and used to run marathons. That's literally 10k+ miles over that timespan and it has never come apart unintentionally.

It's also just so simple to learn.

sonar_un 9 minutes ago||
Yep, I am a runner too, ran 6 marathons with this knot and run 20 miles a week. It just never comes undone.
xp84 3 hours ago||
I can still remember as a teenager having to bend down and re-tie my shoes multiple times a day, and then in my early 20s I received Ian's hardbound book[1] as a gift, learned this knot, and just like that, I simply never had to do that again. What a gift of time!

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Laces-100s-Ways-Pimp-Kicks/dp/1402752... - it even comes laced with a set of special laces on the front to learn with, that uses the 2 colors his diagrams use.

nunez 2 hours ago||
This is a doubled-up version of Ian's Knot: https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ianknot.htm

I've been using this knot for years; I want to say since college (at least 10 years now). It's stupid fast to do once you learn it and it doesn't slip off ever.

Highly HIGHLY recommend learning it.

mmanfrin 2 hours ago|
Came here to post this one. I intentionally tried to train myself to do this about 10 years ago and the muscle memory came a lot quicker than I expected. It's a very secure knot and the sides hang to the side, not wonky like the ones most of us learned.
nunez 2 hours ago||
It took me a few months to nail it; jealous you got it more quickly than I did!

This was kind of like learning Vim. I struggled with how to computer for two weeks and lost the desire to learn literally anything else after mastering it. (I still prefer Vim with my plugins over VSCode!)

NyxWulf 3 hours ago||
This is an interesting knot, the thing with knots though, you have to spend enough time with them to get familiar with tying them blindfolded from memory. My experience is most people don't care enough to do it.

So I have a simple alternative to tying my shoes that you can teach and learn easily. Knots are all about the number of turns or wraps, so when tying your shoes instead of crossing the laces over once, do it twice. When you wrap around the loop, do that twice too. You may have to try it to understand, but it is easy and readily understandable to anyone who can already tie their shoes. The best part is the way you tighten it down and untie are are exactly the same as you have always done. It almost never comes untied, but still releases easily.

rndz 5 hours ago|
More than 10 years ago, somebody shared this clip with me: https://youtu.be/zAFcV7zuUDA?is=QDFb5Wxd_tJ-pJ61

Been tying my shoelaces like this ever since.

NelsonMinar 3 hours ago||
This is the classic Terry Moore 3 minute video. It boils down to "tie a square knot". It changed my life too!

I love this video because it's both the perfect TED video and the perfect parody of a TED video.

burnt-resistor 4 hours ago||
Delete the ?is=... part because it's tracking information that uniquely identifies you.
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