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Posted by coloneltcb 5 hours ago

VoidZero Is Joining Cloudflare(blog.cloudflare.com)
400 points | 196 comments
valgaze 2 hours ago|
"Vue.js: JavaScript MVVM made simple (vuejs.org)" February 3, 2014: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7169288

Evidently Evan You was an Art History + Studio Art and major and at Parsons School he had to pick up javascript to quickly show his work. During a stint at Creativelab5 at Google, he was so inspired to improve on AngularJS experience that he came up with Vue and the rest is history.

I have no idea what this Cloudflare acquisition will ultimately mean but I know I am so very grateful for the beautiful frameworks/tooling Evan and his team have cranked out over the years.

jamwise 9 minutes ago|
Evan has done really great work. I haven't used Vue extensively (not my company's stack) but am a huge fan of Vite and it has helped our React pipeline a lot. I've also recently started playing around with CloudFlare pages and workers and it's already such a pain-free process to get basic apps up and running, I imagine this collab will make my life easier.
yuppiepuppie 3 hours ago||
So is the business model of these projects - 1. build a popular dev tool 2. aquire funding 3. hire great talent 4. pray for an aqui-hire that justifies the initial funding amount

I wonder how the initial investors feel about the aqui-hire path... Must be a pretty nice sum for them to agree to it, or they saw that the path to any revenue was near impossible/non-existant

drewda 3 hours ago||
In many cases the acquiring company shares investors or board members with the acqui-hired entity.

To put it neutrally, VC partners are treating these are parts of their same portfolios, so if one team doesn't pan out on its own, it can be merged into another with somewhat similar overall goals or markets.

To put it more pointedly, it's perhaps all about who one knows and making sure that everyone gets to tell a story of successful exits.

thethimble 2 hours ago||
> it's perhaps all about who one knows and making sure that everyone gets to tell a story of successful exits.

No. It's all about building a great product that people love. Vite is a foundational tool in the JS ecosystem.

Acquihiring the tool/team is entirely downstream from creating a foundational product.

seanclayton 2 hours ago|||
Vite isn't a product. It's a tool. It will be succeeded if necessary. It happened to Webpack after Microsoft hired the creator, and the JS community pivoted hard. Bundlers and compilers in the JS world happen once a decade it appears.
sophacles 1 hour ago||
I was at the hardware store this morning. I bought a hammer. It sure seemed like a product... with the whole "being displayed on store shelves" and "available for purchase" thing.

There were several different hammers there, bearing different branding and having different manufacturers.

I don't quite get the distinction...

senordevnyc 28 minutes ago||
You paid for the hammer. Did you pay for Vite?
sofixa 2 hours ago|||
> No. It's all about building a great product that people love. Vite is a foundational tool in the JS ecosystem.

A foundational tool in an open ecosystem doesn't mean a monetisable product. I struggle to think of even a single example of a foundational tool with a business model.

And of course, not everything needs a business model. But if you're getting VC funding, you kind of need one.

benoau 1 hour ago||
This is the kind of problem I think only UBI solves because there is no apparent business model that can sustain ~20 employees working on software like this, they need to make at least a couple million a year to pay those people!
overfeed 2 hours ago|||
> Must be a pretty nice sum for them to agree to it

Not necessarily: if the investors don't agree to a reasonable amount, the wanna-be acquirer will simply hire the entire team with generous sign-on bonuses, and the investors will be left with a shell of a company.

In this case, the core product is MIT-licensed, the team can quit on a Friday and pick up exactly where they left off under a new org on Monday.

bix6 1 hour ago||
Not necessarily. There are likely key person clauses in the prior round docs.
stackskipton 3 hours ago|||
My guess is investors are getting a good return on investment so they are probably pretty happy.
yuppiepuppie 3 hours ago||
They've raised over $16 million [0]. For a decent 3-5x return for that, they would need to have been acquired for around ~$50 million. For a team of 19 [1], thats around $2.5 million per employee for Cloudflare. Worth it? no idea

[0] https://voidzero.dev/posts/announcing-series-a [1] https://voidzero.dev/about

leros 12 minutes ago|||
Presumably being able to influence their roadmap is worth it
stackskipton 2 hours ago||||
I could see Cloudflare wanting them for 50 Million. Cloudflare recent acquisitions have clearly been "buy tools with heavy lock in" and companies shipping on Void are likely heavily locked in.
benoau 2 hours ago||
Isn't their revenue just sponsorships and donations? This seems like a company destined to scrape by despite their popularity, like Tailwind. You don't get $50 million for that.
ameliaquining 1 hour ago||
void.cloud was their revenue plan, but it was still in private beta at this point.
bix6 1 hour ago|||
Presumably that $12M A was around $50M Val so they need to sell for substantially more to give investors a multiple return.
throwup238 1 hour ago||
Unless the investors have liquidation preference where they see their multiple before anyone else sees a dime.
debarshri 3 hours ago|||
Acquisition happen for 3 reasons.

1. Product 2. Talent 3. Business/growth

In the AI era, some of acquisition happening in the space is for talent and product.

In this case, it looks like it was that. Vite is a great product they were able to build a great team.

You would be surprised how much of a premium companies can pay for talent.

bflesch 1 hour ago||
Your listing is not exhaustive - startups can also be acquired for politics, for marketing purposes, whatever. There is a lot of meat space things going on in the upper echelons of the US tech industry.

Recent history shows that an idealized view only focusing on fiduciary duty does not capture the whole picture of business in the USA.

sophacles 1 hour ago||
Rarely does one acquire dollars for the sake of having dollars. Dollars are power tokens, and the acquisition of them beyond a certain point is almost always accompanied by a motive.
rconti 1 hour ago|||
I mean, the alternative is a whole bunch of BS dealing with funding, global compliance and sales, public markets, etc.

It's more fun to just build the fun bits, get acquired, walk away with a lot of money, and start over again doing the fun bits (if you want to keep working).

embedding-shape 3 hours ago||
> So is the business model of these projects - 1. build a popular dev tool 2. aquire funding 3. hire great talent 4. pray for an aqui-hire that justifies the initial funding amount

Indeed, so as a library/framework/engine/runtime user, for the last decade or so, I've basically avoided anything that touched VC-investments, as eventually the tool will either degrade, get too expensive or straight up disappear, and I got so tired of having to refactor and move stuff around just because new owner did something shitty.

olingern 3 hours ago||
These acquisition announcements always leave me uneasy. There’s a lot of hand waving, “nothing will change and our roadmap will stay the same!” but we can all do basic math and understand that’s not how business works.

As an aside, I have to use Cloudlare at work and it’s a pretty awful experience for the medium sized org I’m at. “Hostile UX” is a common complaint. Maybe they should invest money in competing with Vercel on UX/DX instead of acquiring open source projects.

burcs 2 hours ago||
sorry to hear that's been your experience. i actually joined through an acquisition about a year ago and one of the main things we've been focused on is the dashboard and overall dx.

sadly "hostile ux" is a phrase i've heard more than once and we're working hard to improve. if you're open to it, would love to hear more about the issues you've be running into

runtime_terror 1 hour ago||
The dashboard UX has improved a lot lately but one thing that drives me absolutely nuts is that I get rate limited all the time using it.

For example, I had to recently change an env var we had on a handful of apps and opened them all into new tabs and made the changes and about half way through I started getting rate limited. This has happened to me many times and I've reported it to support and in Discord but it still happens.

One other big complaint is support is non-existent. We sent many support emails (on business plans) and I'm pretty sure we've never gotten a reply. Same for posting in Discord. It's pretty disheartening to build your business on Cloudflare and have no confidence support will help you when you need it.

burcs 56 minutes ago||
yeah you should definitely not be getting rate limited, sorry this is annoying you're not the first to report i will dig in.

as far as support, i know there is a huge effort going on right now to improve response time and support in general, also I'm not as active in discord as I ought to be there's just so much noise, feel free to ping me on there directly if I can help brandon/@ygwyg. can't promise it'll be an instant response but I will respond

tommy_axle 1 hour ago|||
Vite is great and vite 8 was a huge speed-up so definitely a nice win for them. Remaining independent is always great but at the same time there are other "new homes" that could be worse so let's keep our fingers crossed and hope it works out.
pier25 1 hour ago|||
> Maybe they should invest money in competing with Vercel on UX/DX

That's exactly what they are doing.

gowthamgts12 3 hours ago||
their reliability is also way way down lately. too many mishaps and i've long lost trust in CF.
olingern 3 hours ago||
Yes. We’re beginning the process of moving away because of how they’ve become a single point failure that’s unreliable. AWS is more reliable and it’s a bad spot to be in when your CDN / router is down but your actual application is fine
demetris 4 hours ago||
I love Vite, when I don’t forget it exists in my projects. It took things that made you feel mentally deficient and made them almost zero-config.

This news does not make me happy.

Same with the news about Astro earlier this year.

I know it must be good for the people how have made the projects (why else would they chose to do it?) but there is something in those acquisitions that makes me uneasy.

embedding-shape 3 hours ago||
> I know it must be good for the people how have made the projects (why else would they chose to do it?) but there is something in those acquisitions that makes me uneasy.

Same, kind of conflicting. Happy for the individuals involved, they've probably more than earned it. Slightly sad about what comes next, as I'm guessing both you and me seen this happen so many times before, and we've learned to read past the always-reiterated "Nothing will change, everything keeps on being great forever".

avdwrks 3 hours ago|||
This one is particularly interesting given that Vercel products (Nuxt) now rely on a competitor's tooling (Vite).
ZiiS 2 hours ago||
Both are more reliant on V8 derivatives hence Google which they very much compete with.
nobleach 3 hours ago|||
I've loved Vite from the moment it was public. I also tried Snowpack back in the day. (fun story that Fred "fks" went on to create Astro after Snowpack didn't gain traction). The fact that we can "just forget it exists" is a major win in my case. Webpack - while maybe a win over Grunt/Gulp, was MASSIVELY complex.

I too am a bit uneasy. It's not always the case but, corporate ingestion is often where cool projects go to die. The good news about open source is that we have enough Terraform->OpenTofu & Redis->Valkey stories out there.

pier25 1 hour ago||
> Webpack - while maybe a win over Grunt/Gulp, was MASSIVELY complex.

and slow

ambicapter 3 hours ago|||
> It took things that made you feel mentally deficient and made them almost zero-config.

What kind of things?

demetris 2 hours ago|||
What chrisweekly said:

Configuring webpack, mostly. :-D

That’s not a dig at webpack: Those tools are super complex, and hiding complexity from the user is not easy. But it seems that with Vite we finally got there.

chrisweekly 3 hours ago|||
I'm not the one you replied to, but a typical config & plugins stack for (webpack + eslint + prettier) is nearly impossible to reason about. VoidZero's tools (Vite + oxcfmt + oxclint) are radically simpler and more performant.
azangru 2 hours ago||
> a typical config & plugins stack for (webpack + eslint + prettier) is nearly impossible to reason about.

I think people just don't want to bother. They don't want to read the docs, or maybe watch a video or two (back when webpack was popular, Sean Larkin, webpack evangelist, made a number of popular courses about setting it up). Also, webpack config became easier compared to 2014/2015; I think they got to practically a zero-config by default.

I can understand that people don't want to care; but "impossible to reason about" is not it. It isn't rust, for crying out loud; nor lisp; nor haskell.

trollbridge 3 hours ago|||
Yeah. I don't want to sound selfish, but now I need to make plans to eventually migrate off of vite.
adzm 2 hours ago||
Migrate off vite to what exactly? I just migrated a personal project to vite and it simplified the existing webpack thing drastically, I was very impressed.
bossyTeacher 3 hours ago||
> This news does not make me happy.

It shouldn't. Big corpo buying small companies harms us all long term.

hntiz 4 hours ago||
I think, just from a purely build-step point of view, it's been evident that tools like Vite, Bun, etc. have achieved all they meaningfully can. If I was the creator of these tools, I've move on too. Good luck and thanks for everything.
creamyhorror 3 hours ago||
So long, and thanks for all the fish.
alefnula 4 hours ago||
I think this frames the tools too narrowly.

If Vite, Bun and uv were just "make builds faster" projects, then maybe the returns are diminishing. But the acquisitions by Cloudflare, Anthropic and OpenAI suggest this layer is becoming more strategic, not less.

These tools sit in the software supply chain: dependency resolution, project structure, tests, builds, runtimes, deployment paths and increasingly AI-agent execution loops. They define the default path for building software, and they are where AI-generated code gets tested against real dependencies, builds, tests and deployment constraints.

So I don’t think they’ve achieved all they meaningfully can. The value is shifting from raw build speed to control over the workflow layer where software is assembled.

swe_dima 1 hour ago||
Love Vite, but always felt sorry for them because it was not clear how they can make money, the whole VoidZero thing felt like a stretch.

It's one of those things that always stopped me from building cool tools - you have to make a living somehow.

So I am happy for the team of builders that they were able to receive the deserved payout and sustainability.

zuzululu 1 hour ago|
A lot of these very popular FOSS products/frameworks simply are the worst ways to make money. You are selling to a demographic that doesn't want to pay for the tools and value they get. You end up competing against your own free version that can now be modified with a bit of AI agent session to get feature parity.
mellosouls 14 minutes ago||
Congrats to the team.

I appreciate Cloudflare's loud positive proclamation here wrt the OS future; I know scepticism is warranted with some takeovers but although there might be a trend towards Cloudflare fit over the long term that's very different from closing down or abandonment so this generally seems positive to me - best wishes to all parties.

freedomben 3 hours ago||
> Before saying anything else, we want to make the most important thing clear: Vite, Vitest, Rolldown, Oxc, and Vite+ will stay open source, vendor-agnostic, and community-driven. Nothing about that changes.

Appreciate them putting that so clearly. I am highly skeptical of acquisitions now because we've been burned so many times in the past. Time will tell if this stays true, but at least it's clearly on the record. Would love to know if this is in contract/writing somewhere as part of the acquisition.

stackskipton 3 hours ago|
>Would love to know if this is in contract/writing somewhere as part of the acquisition.

Cloudflare would be insane to allow that provision in the contract or acquisition documents.

So I would take that promise as "will stay open source, blah blah blah, for now...."

true_religion 1 hour ago||
Just for the record,

NPM -> Microsoft

Vite -> Cloudflare

Bun -> Anthropic

Turbopack -> Vercel

Remix -> Shopify (I barely remember this one)

Biome (formerly Rome) -> Indie but largely supported by Depot

SWC -> Indie

esBuild -> Indie

I use RsBuild/RsPack which is ByteDance supported.

jerrygenser 1 hour ago|
Python but also add

Uv -> OpenAI

jazzypants 4 hours ago|
First Astro, now this? Cloudflare is getting all the good JS talent.

The monetization story never really made sense to me. It seems really hard to carve out a space in the managed hosting world. Are the Vercel and Laravel teams the only ones to make Private Equity work?

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