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Posted by vrganj 13 hours ago

Pokémon Go Scans Trained the Navigation Tech for Military Drones(dronexl.co)
614 points | 284 commentspage 2
superkickstart 12 hours ago|
The world is so messed up right now that this is not even the least bit surprising. In fact it's on point.
crnkofe 11 hours ago||
This is revolting. Given how many kids played and are still playing the game this literally means weaponizing kids playing games. Humanity has been lost somewhere along the way.
SlightlyLeftPad 9 hours ago||
Humanity hasn’t been lost, it’s been conquered.

Enter AI, a new era of soulless wonder.

Intelligentia Artificiosa.

Ingenium Artificum.

— Dreams of Silicon and Sorrow

fragmede 9 hours ago||
What's the AI component here? Pokemon Go dates back to 2016, and there was Ingress before that. Hell, there was Foursquare before Ingress. Strava/similar has leaked military bases' layouts. All of that predates ChatGPT.
nonick 9 hours ago||
Ingress still exists and has a similar scanning mechanism.
chinathrow 10 hours ago||
> Hanke formed Niantic Labs inside Google in 2010, then spun it out in 2015.

Spyware company spawns a new spyware company.

FridgeSeal 9 hours ago|
Spyware Mitosis?
Larrikin 12 hours ago||
I'm glad I always quickly scanned the dirt. At some point I gave up completely when I heard they started banning people for dirt scans.

In the latest season they've gotten rid of the scan rewards, so I guess they got all the data they needed.

KaiserPro 10 hours ago||
I worked at a VPS competitor of niantic.

I am conflicted on this report.

1) VPS is not new, the startup I worked at had a working public system in 2018.

2) The hard part about VPSs is not actually the navigation, its generating and querying the map.

How does the VPS work?

You build a point cloud of features (for us we paid people to go and record videos in cities, Tesla/Waymo/toyata/google drove cars niantic got it's players to take videos/pictures)

Align that point cloud to the 3d world, store it in a way that can be queried quickly (doing that quickly and at scale is still an area of research)

Then your client needs to extract the keypoints from an image and perform triangulation against the map to see where the camera was taken (There are calibration issues, but we ain't got time for that)

Now.

Niantic, from what I can see (and its been a while) has a database of key landmarks, but not of the areas inbetween. For decent navigation I would say that this is a massive problem.

I know niantic are pushing the whole "spatial world model" but frankly I don't think that scales. They stuff they have released is memorybound in vGPUs which isn't that useful for realtime querying.

I strongly suspect that actually they have a different system, much more traditional along the lines of colmap, or hloc, or something with a feedforward model in it.

However for the drone usercase, what you actually want is SLAM, which is a very different problem. for SLAM you need to build the map whilst your are moving, and then try and do loop closure or some other method to stop drift. Once you've gone there and back you can use that model for relocaliosation.

vectorphresh 2 hours ago|||
I'm not sure they need the in between areas, so long as the landmarks are inclusive of similar features. In fact, they probably only need a high quality 3D scans of primitive features to perform classification (walls, building, intersections, etc). I haven't played recently, so I'm unsure how distinct each landmark is.
KaiserPro 56 minutes ago||
> I'm not sure they need the in between areas, so long as the landmarks are inclusive of similar features.

That gets you good navigation around landmarks, but when you go further away, you get less usable feature points, as they are closer together you get more position error/need higher resolution cameras.

The intermediate places gives you the precise consistent navigation.

fragmede 9 hours ago||
(Visual Positioning System)
leni536 11 hours ago||
Pokémon being used for war efforts is prime South Park material, too bad they already did that.
phrotoma 11 hours ago|
A game aimed at children supporting military intelligence is prime cyberpunk material. No doubt fiction beat us to that as well.
deafpolygon 10 hours ago||
Sure did.. it’s called Ender’s Game (Orson Scott Card).
speed_spread 8 hours ago||
And before that, The Last Starfighter
deafpolygon 8 hours ago||
And before that: "The book originated as a short story of the same name, published in the August 1977 issue of Analog Science Fiction and Fact."[1]

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ender%27s_Game

yanhangyhy 11 hours ago||
i remerber china bans it many years ago... and many people dont understand why.... never trust a USA product!

and we even have youtube videos like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiJOHV9rIxU

yieldcrv 11 hours ago|
I don’t think the standing committee is objectively that perceptive

But I do appreciate alot about what they are doing and choose to do

Reminds me more of a theme park. Yes, a heavy handed corporation runs it and if you have any dissent it won’t go well, but if you don’t choose to focus on that then it will be a joyous place and you have the opportunity to contribute to that energy and be rewarded by something that simulates a free market

Peanuts99 10 hours ago|||
China has the largest intelligence programme in the world and likely has whole teams of people whose job it is to build this type of data. It's not surprising that they are cagey about it being hoovered up by other countries.
mcosta 12 hours ago||
It is even worse, tax money is used for the military.
teekert 12 hours ago|
I know it's sarcasm, it's a valid point. We all already contribute to the war efforts of our governments.
Al-Khwarizmi 9 hours ago|||
Of our own governments. Which makes sense, under the assumption that having a military is a necessary evil, how else would they be funded?

This is about players all over the world contributing scans of their own countries to US military, though.

sciencejerk 6 hours ago||
Russia is already taking advantage of preloaded terrain imagery, according to the article:

The principle is already turning up on the other side of the front, where a downed Russian drone was found matching live camera feeds against preloaded terrain imagery rather than trusting a single GPS module.

https://dronexl.co/2025/06/10/russian-ai-drone-nvidia-sony-u...

corndoge 6 hours ago|
This is ancient tech https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TERCOM
tim333 6 hours ago||
It sounds like image matching may be newer. Still you could probably do that with any old satellite image.
tomaytotomato 11 hours ago||
How useful is spatial data over time, does it decay or age much?

Is the geographical data more useful, or are buildings and other structures more important?

Genuinely don't know much in this space.

KaiserPro 3 hours ago||
Its using Visual descriptors to generate a pointcloud. Buildings and text are really great for creating descriptors, so when they change you loose key points for "localizing"(ie getting your position). This needs to be updated as those buildings change.

You also need a day/night dataset (although some newer descriptors are day/night resistant)

thinkingemote 10 hours ago|||
It's easier to take a look via change of dates in google street view, they have almost 20 years coverage. You can see how the data ages and decays or doesn't because it's tied to the place it represents.

Shops come and go, churches do not move, schools tend not to move much, industry areas is somewhat dynamic, military installations might be static or dynamic, trees grow or are removed.

jayd16 5 hours ago|||
Yes. Even dealing with "what does it look like in rain? What does it look like in snow?" is hard. Hell... "What does it look like at night" is hard. Hell.... what does it look like at noon vs sundown (no shadow vs long shadows) is hard.

Have you ever seen a commercial use of anything like this? That should give you a hint about how reliable these systems get.

miggol 11 hours ago|||
It's the combination of geographical data (maps) linked to its visual representation in the world (footage of structures, roads, landscape features) that is useful.

The geographical data already exists in digital maps. And I would expect competent militaries already have maps of enemy territory. It's the second part that was so far missing.

This combined set allows the training of AI models that can say, "When my surroundings look like x, that looks like y on a map".

So when your drone's GPS gets jammed, it can look at its surroundings, reference its (internal and offline) maps, figure out where it is, and navigate.

malux85 11 hours ago|||
Compred to what? Datasets at this scale are rare. You're not comparing against another ideal dataset, you're comparing against having nothing.
johannes1234321 11 hours ago||
There are so many companies these days doing recording for self driving cars and/or street view like applications. Also sites like Flickr collect huge sets of geo tagged photos, as do companies like Meta where tons of geo tagged images are shared each day via their different outlets.

Niantic has the benefit that they can steer "volunteers" to specific points, though.

sciencejerk 5 hours ago||
Maybe Niantic intentionally steered players towards remote locations only reachable on foot, understanding that this data is more scarce and therefore more valuable?
notabotiswear 10 hours ago||
I don't what class of models they use here, specifically, but a generic classifier shouldn't depend on a single feature. And neighbourhoods don't typically get razed or remodeled/painted over in a fortnight.

... Except, well, when it's the doing of this same, so called "defence" industry.

barkingcat 3 hours ago|
classic use case for gamification.

every time I see any startup run "games" on some aspect of daily life, it's going to go into killer robots in the end.

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