Posted by MehrdadKhnzd 13 hours ago
They are a hardware company and will keep selling the best machine for AI use. Well done.
Isn’t this the problem inference (training) a model is designed to solve :)))
And it's a hard problem.
What's an easier form of training is being able to see the intermediate results and train to imitate them.
I think Evans is completely wrong. There are only 2 truly frontier models. (at least for now). And Anthropic seems to be leaving OpenAI behind so there might be only 1 in the near future. (which is scary/dangerous)
I wish there was a case where I find Evans is wrong. As far as my memory served me, I failed to record a single one.
I disagree that Amazon, Meta, Microsoft, and Google are "well" behind. If anything the frontier model advantage seems to be at best 6 - 9 months. And that the Chinese model are all doing well.
One of Steve Jobs's line, "It is a feature, not a product." Even if Apple were a generation behind or 1 year behind frontier model. The advantage of default is enough to hold a lot of its user.
To put it simply, even if OpenAI or Anthropic were better, there is zero chances they would topple Apple in hardware sales, user or ecosystem. On the other hand, even if Apple's AI were 6 - 9 months or a generation behind, most user would settle for it and damage OpenAI / Anthropic.
Do you mean Google's AI with Apple wrappers? Apple's in-house AI is further behind Google, amd very far from the frontier according to your ranking. IMO, Google is on the frontier - I recall Altman calling for an OpenAI all-hands-on deck when Gemini was released because of how good it was compared to ChatGPT. I also suspect Google has the lowest operating expenses due to scale, experience and luck/planning (TPUs), there will come a time when AI investments will slow down, and the cost of revenue will become more important.
If anything Apple should notice it is Anthropic has got a really good marketing team and it would be no shame if they pick a trick or two from them.
employees will always suffer.
Anthropic and OpenAI are far behind state of the art for the entire curve except the “extremely expensive for barely measurable improvements” part.
GLM is probably the third most expensive frontier model (benchmarks and reviews will say for sure), and is apparently ~Opus 4.6 for 10% the inference cost.
The last I checked, qwen was still owning the 24-32GiB RAM range (it runs reasonably without a GPU!) and somewhere around 3.5-4 generation models.
Also, even anthropic says Mythos ~= ChatGPT 5.5, so it’s unlikely either one is leaving the other behind. The big problem they both have is they asked for the government to gate keep model releases and use cases, and their wish was granted.
That’s knocked them back 6 months already. Anthropic’s only frontier offering has been taken down.
It's like the difference to talking to two smartest kids in a class, but one really belongs a grade higher - and the other hasn't learned yet to ask the questions that encourage it to dig in that little bit more for the additional multi-order effects.
I didn’t use it on big enough tasks to notice any improvement.
I had been hitting plan limits pretty regularly, but fixed it by changing my workflow. That also increased the success rate of claude by an order of magnitude.
But what I think a lot of people miss is that the market for the truly bleeding edge (developing bio-tech, building the most sophisticated software stacks (probably with a tilt towards simulation, GPU kernel optimization, etc)) is not the whole market.
There's a plethora of use-cases for models that are not on the bleeding edge. If I can solve my relatively simple problems with an off-the-shelf model for a minuscule fraction of the cost of the frontier, I'm going to.
Its somewhat of a myth that you need the most advanced, expensive model for software development.
Truly fascinating ecosystem and community in general, as experiences differ so wildly. Anthropic's models seems far behind OpenAI to me, especially when you get into "Pro" territory, and there doesn't seem to be any worthy competition to Pro Mode available at all.
And this is said with someone who use both platforms, and spend a lot of my day interacting with agents and LLMs in various ways. The interesting part is that probably so do you too, and probably your experience and what you share lines up with what you experience! Yet we come away with basically opposite takeaways :) I don't think either of us are wrong either, somehow.
I've noticed that depending on how you talk to it, you get wildly different outputs. This seems to happen less with Opus: it mostly understand what I want. GPT is often a bit too literal.
Just my two cents.
Yeah, exact prompting matters a lot, seemingly more than people think. There is definitely tradeoffs between how literal the models takes the prompts, on one hand it's useful for the model to ignore their own instinct when you know better, so they don't go chasing geese randomly, but on the other hand it's useful sometimes when they self-direct, when you misworded something and it's obvious you meant something different because of the context, and similar things. They're basically good at different things.
Really agree every model isn't equal and they aren't as interchangeable without adjusting how you prompt them as people seem to think.
At which point it’s fair to reject the commoditization label.
Also missing from these discussions are e.g. Qwen, which is at least as good as one back from OpenAI or Anthropic’s frontiers.
They're missing in the discussion because the ones you can run locally, aren't actually "one step away from other closed-source labs" in practice when you use them. They might benchmark as such, but they're sadly far away from measuring up to those scores except for very specific use cases, even when you have say 96GB of VRAM available to run the bigger models even most (at home) consumers won't be able to run.
And they probably won’t be for at least another decade. Comparing like with like, flagship model running on the best hardware it can run on, Qwen is close.
I wish so badly this was true, but sadly today it just isn't.
Some of the harness even let you run a local model for most things, and only pay for the latest frontier models when needed, which cuts down cost drastically.
Fable might well be a better model but it’s too expensive for everyday AI use. Definitely if we’re talking about the kind of stuff you’re going to want to do on your phone. Even for coding, I’m not going to reach for Fable (well, when I can…) for 95% of the work I do.
I don’t believe a mature AI industry is going to have a one size fits all, single winner.
The fact that telcos couldn't charge rent was a primary reason the Internet was so successful.
Remember $0.10 per text message? You bet in some alternate timeline AT&T charges $0.10 per webpage visit and we're stuck on 100kbps connections because the monopoly doesn't want to innovate.
Extremely tangential, but this is my favourite upshot of AI. For decades, companies have been walling off their services and forcing us into their fuckass UIs. Now over the course of the last twelve months, suddenly everything has an MCP and I can use it through my command line chat interface.
Any company that doesn't adapt gets so hammered by people's AI-DIY web scrapers that they have no choice but to cave.
But we can imagine that the balance of what's on-device vs what's remote will move continuously towards the former as time, improved HW and improved local models keep progressing
From a user’s perspective, it doesn’t matter.
Now if they can further reinforce their angle on Privacy, they might continue to be what they are (or more)
They’re typically a bit better on high TDP stuff, and a bit worse on low TDP. They mostly match in the middle. I have a $500 AMD NUC and a slightly older $2000 MBP. Inference throughput is within 2x.
The comparison is a little messy: AMD currently maxes out at 128GB of RAM vs Apple’s discontinued 512. Apple has nothing to rival the Steam Deck.
Android succeeded at this to an extent with phones, but Apple has been able to keep its products differentiated enough in the minds of consumers to maintain their premium pricing. So far.
That API has no user-facing components, and has no influence over UX of what the end-users are interacting with.
The users won't know if you used Foundation Models API or integrated with OpenAI/Anthropic/Gemini SDK directly.
That's the point! That's the whole "white-labeling" part, and what the commentator earlier is talking about. You're very close in understanding the context here!
I'd genuinely like to understand where you're coming from more.
I think we're all in agreement that this framework is very much about letting developers swap the models easily, and treat them as commodities. That seems pretty obvious.
I do however still don't see how this has anything to do with controlling the UX (or the new Siri for that matter! The new Siri doesn't use Anthropic models, and there are no extensions point for it to do so — that's pretty much the whole reason why it won't be available in the EU).
Help me see your point of view!
The way I see it, isn't about what is immediately there right now today, but what intent it signals, or what path Apple is planning. Yes, today it's ClaudeForFoundationModels, but the FoundationModels stuff will be used to allowed switching between models, probably without users noticing, and who knows what Apple will ultimately surface to users, tends to be in the direction of less user-control.
But there is a lot of assumptions, guesses and extrapolation from that, I think you're right if you focus only what's there right now, rather than trying to "see into the future" which harrouet basically started doing with their root comment.
Same is happening to Claude software package as it would stand behind branded Apple foundation models. From pure software developer thinking this is exactly what Claude offered here so where is the issue? Issue is in larger space where Apple could take steps to block Claude out of their ecosystem if they so wish at some point and there is little Claude / Anthropic would do if Apple Foundation is the only thing that Apple consumers would know about.
But this is very much _not_ what this is.
Apple showed a bunch of new APIs at WWDC last week. One of this is a way for a developers to interact with LLM's in a way that let's you easily swap out models (with a bunch of other niceties around it), including swapping between on-device and remote models.
This is _Anthropic_ (not Apple!) shipping their support for that framework, so you can also switch between different Anthropic models using the same APIs you'd use to swap between a local or PCC model.
I expect OpenAI will probably ship their shims in the next couple of weeks too? (You can probably vibe-code one in half an hour if you point Codex at the Anthropic one, tbh).
(Apple also doesn't use "Apple Foundation Model" anywhere in the user-facing marketing materials AFAICT, this is strictly developer facing terminology, but I could be wrong?)
My impression is that people are _wildly_ misunderstanding what this _actually_ is, and running wild with speculation/interpretation.
Are you thinking about Intents? That lets Siri interact with data (and perform some actions in them) from your apps, but it is something completely different.
You can definitely expose things from your app via Intents that will end up calling an external arbitrary LLM somewhere, but it does not require using Foundation Models API whatsoever.
Ahh I was hoping for the opposite: all of the existing features of Claude Code but somehow running locally on my laptop's neural engine. A pipe dream on an M2 with 8 GB of RAM, but I had a flicker of hope there.
https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2026/232/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wykPErJ8M-8
In 10 years, I hope my MacBook Pro can run today's frontier models and has 1TB of unified Memory.
I don't think you understand why people buy Nvidia hardware if you're beating the "just add more dual channel DDR, bro" drum. Apple wouldn't even be able to extinguish AMD with a product like that, it's all slow memory being fed into a raster-first GPU architecture.
You can use environment variables to have claude code query literally any endpoint you choose as long as it has a compatible API.
I'd love using Gemma4 as an example. but thinking of a user. if 10 Apps each uses same model and downloads it, the phone will be bloated.
I still didn't understand if Apple provided a way for multiple apps uses same on-device model (without tricky namespaces and permissions).
I didn't see anything suggesting that's the case.
They were wrong when their on-device model was way behind. They still might be right in the long term.
While multiple app I use might need Gemma 4 E4B, I use dozens of apps and app devs can choose from hundreds of models. A shared cache might reduce size a little when there's overlap, but the core problem still exists. If each app chooses a model disk and memory-swapping explode.
Its probably be better for device manufacturers to bake in a default. I'm not proposing they limit you from using others, but one shared default might be best developer/user experience for 99% of apps.
- Being warm in memory is the single biggest perf speedup you can get, and a default is much more likely to be warm.
- "Best model" is usually "best model for this device" given both RAM and compute. A developer can't test every device but Apple can/will.
- Each model needs to be optimized for the hardware (what's running on ANE, what's running on Metal, what's running on CPU). The default gets optimized.
- If you need custom model, a Lora is probably best (30MB, benefits from all of the above)
You could say the default should be swappable, but that's more a linux ideal than an Apple one so I doubt we ever see that. Plus there are real downsides: intentional or not, prompts end up optimized to the model they are developed for, so swapping the default system model would degrade every app.
- Application can ask for specific model, if available use it. if not, ask to download it (or try some fallback / alternative)
- User can manage models. So as a user I can clean unused models (and for non-techie have something similar to offloading apps when unused for some period of time).
And now given everybody now does this I guess the incentive to stop breaking stuff reduces even further.
Might as well have static binaries.
It’s a nice language though.
The main difference is that Python use to make you have to know that the virtualenv existed. Now `uv run` and `poetry run` abstract that away so you don’t have to interact with it if you don’t want to.
The original plan was to ship Python. However I found out I can migrate them to CoreML, and now it's a model file + Swift code. I got some massive performance improvements as well.
Of course, this doesn't work at all for non-Mac environments, but it was nice to be able to do it. (Also doesn't solve the duplicate large models problem)
Python heaviness is a more fundamental problem.
The framework's whole deal is that it lets you use the same API to target either the device built-in models, the Apple-hosted online models (Private Cloud Computer), or write your own shims to call out to arbitrarily hosted online models.
You can then dynamically route your calls to a different kind of model/provider, using system APIs, without having to write your own abstraction layer over "I want to use local model for this, but I want to use Claude for that", or having to integrate your own API integration with Anthropic/OpenAI APIs.
It abstracts things like tool calling in one place; and has a bunch of other niceties/oddities (it keeps the same "transcript" going, even if you dynamically switch providers/models during a session) and some other things.
> Requests go directly from your app to the Claude API; Apple is not in the request path and does not see prompts or responses. Usage is billed to your Anthropic account at standard API pricing. Your app decides when to use Claude and when to use Apple's on-device model: pass whichever model you want to each session.
Lol bro this is literally it this is the model they've been training (was Apple Foundation model not a big enough hint?)
> At WWDC, Apple announced that it's opening its Foundation Models framework to third-party cloud model providers. Starting with iOS 27, macOS 27, iPadOS 27, visionOS 27 and watchOS 27, model providers can implement the new public LanguageModel protocol to provide a common interface for model inference. We've made Gemini models available to the Foundation Models framework through the Firebase Apple SDK.
This provides a fully native development experience — cloud-hosted Gemini models can plug directly into the Foundation Models framework using the same API. That means the on-device Apple model and cloud-hosted Gemini models sit behind a shared API surface, so you can easily swap between local and cloud inference to fit your use case.
https://blog.google/innovation-and-ai/technology/developers-...
With other words, it's unlikely to happen as there is no money in it. Better for Apple to create some new subscription "AI" and "AI-lite" plans people can subscribe to, and since Apple is a company and we all know what those care about, it's unlikely to become a utopia of local models running on your phone.
"You pay an indeterminant amount of money to ask a question and you might not even get the response you want without spending even more money" doesn't appeal to most people who aren't gamblers and explaining how "thank you" at the end of a long exchange can be expensive due to context is an even harder thing for an average person to swallow.
Token cost going up/down like a yo-yo also doesn't help. Normal users NEED fixed costs and don't want to expend energy constantly keeping up with the AI meta. "My subscription lasted much longer last month" isn't a winning problem either.
I think Apple is correct that Local LLM for most things is the future.
Right now for allihat.com I just let people use the Apple model locally if you don't feel like using the claude key. And my conversions to paying user shot up like 3x! But it really isn't a replacement obviously to claude. I was hoping Apple would make proxying to Claude some kind of thing they do for me so I also don't have to proxy to my own server just to try and manage API to Claude usage.
Apple is offering developers with less than 2 million downloads free AI models via their servers https://techcrunch.com/2026/06/08/apple-bets-cheaper-ai-will...
Then Apple quietly refuses to participate by not investing tens or hundreds of billions in creating a competing LLM. Sure, they resell Claude for the marks or utilize Gemini to placate the gullible fools but they know what's up.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-copilot/for-indivi...
I know this is from a developer perspective. But as a consumer this is just funny.
Layers are luxury and remove control and transparency.