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Posted by apitman 13 hours ago

I admire Fabrice Bellard. He is almost certainly a better overall programmer(twitter.com)
https://xcancel.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/2064095424420487226
746 points | 358 comments
andai 5 hours ago|
Reading the list of Bellard's contributions, what strikes me is not the raw ability (although certainly there is that too!) but "damn, he knows how to pick 'em!"

He keeps picking stuff to work on that ends up being insanely useful to a massive number of people. That seems somehow even more remarkable than the technical ability.

Deciding what to work on might be the most important question in life.

stouset 2 hours ago||
Maybe, but you could also look at it from another angle.

Taking something that’s traditionally been hard and making it dramatically easier, better, and faster unlocks pent-up downstream use-cases.

I’m sure it’s some degree of both selection and execution, but so many industries have been unlocked simply because somebody showed up and figured out how to make a previously difficult thing easy.

andai 5 hours ago|||
My guess would be the hueristic is "I want to do simple thing, why is it so hard?" (Modern computing has an overabundance of "DX tarpits".)

Which is funny because, everyone has that experience, right? But then approximately nobody proceeds to do something about it. (Including most people who have the skills to make a difference!)

Like, that's surprisingly mundane, and surprisingly actionable.

---

If we distil it into a philosophy, it would be something like...

- things should be good

- they are not so good

- I can learn to make them better

And more broadly: "You can just do things"

abustamam 3 hours ago|||
As an extension to your last point, here in the US people love complaining about politics (on both sides) but very few people (including me!) take the time to come up with solutions and go to town halls, or write to senators apart from the automated message that makes you feel like you did a thing, or even run for office.

Of course, all of those are hard! And I think that speaks to the modern tarpits. No one set out to make a tarpit, it just happened and it's hard to make it perfect.

taeric 3 hours ago||
A big hidden in plain site facet of this, is few are willing to put forth the work within the existing system.

That is, going to town halls, writing senators, and running for office are all standard parts of the system people are complaining about. And they are offering the complaints, largely, as stand in complaints for whole hosts of problems that they actually think are there.

So, agreed, few are willing to ignore their general nebulous complaints and get into the system to work with it. They dream that there will be some magic shift of everything away from their complaints.

My only twist is I think this is ok, as long as people stay grounded in the rest of their life. It is perfectly fine to dream. Is mostly fine to complain. No need to dirty the water where people are getting things done, though.

gopher_space 1 hour ago||
I don’t know, it wasn’t until the pandemic and a layoff that I had time to actually sit and think.

There’s a reason that most of the voters (and protesters in my area) are retired, and it isn’t apathy. I don’t have time to educate myself on these topics in any real depth.

And I need to educate myself because the push information is all bullshit. Digging into policing in Seattle, the official and public conversation was all culture war while the actual problems looked like simple incompetence from a system analysis perspective.

I don’t have the bandwidth to deal with this kind of fumbling on every topic, and I’m realizing that my parents didn’t live in a low-trust society like I do.

taeric 1 hour ago||
We don't disagree? But this is part of the problem of many complaints. The cost of entry into any system is non-zero. That people with more resources are involved is not at all a surprise.

Which is why I have my "twist" there that this is not necessarily bad. I'm fine letting people dream. I'm fine with people having general complaints. I have to be fine with people being wrong, as it happens whether I'm fine with it or not.

What is getting dodgy is how many people accidentally find themselves hijacked in the delay that is inherent in understanding systems to think that they can win with a culture war.

athrowaway3z 4 hours ago||||
I think you're underestimating the skill required to do it that well. Add 1 wrong feature and suddenly your simple project working around a DX tarpits is a new tarpit.

A lot of devs like building features.

atonse 1 hour ago||
To be fair, almost zero people praise the dx for ffmpeg. but the utility and value is so massively high, that it overcomes the famously complex dx of ffmpeg. I'm not even insulting ffmpeg, if it does a million things, then there are going to be a million knobs.

I think of git as the same. The git cli is not intuitive at all (unless that lightbulb goes off) but the utility is so good, that people just kind of suck it up and use it.

chollida1 3 hours ago||||
> "DX tarpits"

Google shows no results for this term so i'm guessing its your own short hand for something hard?

blanched 3 hours ago|||
Potentially a play on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_tarpit

(DX is developer experience, tarpit is used idiomatically to mean “slow/difficult thing”)

chollida1 2 hours ago||
Ah, thank you.
quietbritishjim 3 hours ago||||
DX is developer experience (analogous to UX for user experience).

Tarpit is often used as an analogy for anything that suddenly slows you down.

FpUser 1 hour ago||||
>"DX tarpits"

This is my approach which I use for SMBs (my actual clients). Never failed in decades. I am on my own since year 2000 and few times before that.

1) Always start with building single vertically scalable monolith running on dedicated server which can serve reasonable amount of transactions / date volume with acceptable performance.

2) Only start adding to infra when vertical scaling stops working (well you get some warning sign before it actually starting to hurt business) and then do it strictly on on need basis. Only rewrite / rearchitect if you see approaching google scale and can not shard simply by XXX-Canada, XXX-US etc. This will of course fail on some specialized scenarios but we are talking plain vanilla business backends for SMB.

psychoslave 1 hour ago|||
That's still make the hard part present. Things are not good on so many considerations. So selecting and being able to focus for just as much time as it will be required are the hard part.

Thus starting with learning wow meditation seems an important first step.

For all the rest, it's already going to be more issues on how to prioritize getting the ressources mapped where seems to fit to reach the goals.

jimbokun 2 hours ago|||
These are your 10x programmers.

Maybe 100x or more in Bertrand’s case.

It’s not about putting in 19 hour days or spitting out more lines of code or PRs or whatever.

It’s coming up with elegant solutions with broad impact that no one else even considered.

swiftcoder 2 hours ago|||
> Deciding what to work on might be the most important question in life.

The flip side of this, is if you have the ability, you can just pick the hardest problem in your field, go solve it... rinse and repeat.

Everyone can find out what the hardest problems in their field are, it's not a secret, just a question of if you have the ability/gumption/willingness to go spend years of your life attacking a problem like that

MinimalAction 1 hour ago|||
Often this is the conundrum in research as well. What should one spend their life working on? Especially if you want to make an impact. Choosing the right problem is often harder than coming up with a relevant solution.
apitman 2 hours ago|||
One way I like to think of it is that Fabrice creates prototypes interesting enough that other people choose to spend their entire careers maintaining them.
Cthulhu_ 4 hours ago|||
This is the more striking thing. An meme I often repeat is that ideas are cheap, execution is key - there's a trope of "I have a great idea for an app, I just need a developer to do all the work", exacerbated with AI doing all the work.

But this guy is the opposite idea of that. In hindsight, sure, a library doing video is obvious. But the other ones? That's something else.

momocowcow 1 hour ago|||
I like that he doesn’t provide a github link but a .zip to download
latexr 1 hour ago|||
> Deciding what to work on might be the most important question in life.

Work on being a positive influence in the world. Help your neighbour when they are in need and fight for the rights of those less fortunate than yourself.

FpUser 1 hour ago||
>"Work on being a positive influence in the world."

Different groups have different "positives" / negatives. So unless trivial like don't eat babies who's the judge?

latexr 57 minutes ago||
> who's the judge?

You are. Decide for yourself what it means to be a positive influence in the world and do that. This isn’t that hard, it’s not a gotcha. If you are capable of empathy, you are capable of understanding what it means to be good for others, learn from mistakes, and do better.

Also, I provided examples:

> Help your neighbour when they are in need and fight for the rights of those less fortunate than yourself.

Seems unambiguous to me.

willXare 8 minutes ago||
[dead]
miki123211 7 hours ago||
It's interesting to me that most of Bellard's work is basically turning specs into C.

His most important projects are ffmpeg (codec specs), qEmu (ISA specs), QuickJS (the EcmaScript spec), tinyC (the C spec), and his telecom company (LTE specs). I guess the pi calculations and neural network stuff are exceptions.

Just to be clear, this doesn't make his work any less impressive. Highly performant codec and emulator implementations are no easy feat; it's just interesting that most of this work falls into that relatively narrow area.

femto 6 hours ago||
It's worth noting that most communications specifications that involve an encoder/decoder pair communicating over a channel only specify the encoder. Standards purposely leave the decoder open to allow systems to progress as technology develops and to allow competition between implementations. This also makes a standard simpler, as a decoder is usually more complex than an encoder since it has to deal with noise and other effects introduced by the channel. Consequently, implementing a competitive standards compliant decoder involves R&D and is not a case of following a predefined path.

I've always seen Bellard as an engineer who programs rather than a pure programmer.

harrouet 4 hours ago||
It is exactly the opposite for MPEG, which only specifies the decoder (i.e. how frames should be decoded).
kroeckx 3 hours ago||
Maybe they meant encoding, the file format.
Tuna-Fish 58 minutes ago||
But that only specifies the decoder.

The format for all modern video codecs is not the kind of format where any specific piece of uncompressed input should always be encoded the same way, but more like a very restricted programming language that gives the encoder a lot of tools to compress the video, and which tools they use and how they use them are up to them.

baobabKoodaa 5 hours ago|||
> ffmpeg (codec specs)

if your mental model is that somebody writes codec specs and then fabrice bellard comes in and turns the specs into C, you are dead wrong. first of all, codecs are usually reverse-engineered, there is no spec. second of all, even when a well specified document describes the codec, that spec does not describe how to efficiently encode or decode with that codec. people like fabrice bellard develop the algorithms that do that.

HelloNurse 2 hours ago|||
Vocabulary please. A "codec" is software that CODes and DECodes multimedia content, while specs describe an encoded file or stream format (occasionally involving network protocols and other concerns).

In a normal standard development process experimental codecs come first, then those that have proved to work well, including having good enough performance, are described in the spec; after standardization there's very little room to "develop the algorithms" because nonconformant implementations would be useless.

Reverse engineering is limited to the abnormal case of having access to some codec but not to the standard that describes it.

wang_li 1 hour ago|||
The way to criticize that comment is to point out that all the major and most important codecs that are most commonly used with ffmpeg, do not come from the ffmpeg project. H.264, H.265, libmp3lame, speex, libfdkaac, etc. all come from other projects. What ffmpeg does is provide libraries for transforming decoded data between formats and calling to and from encoders and decoders and multiplexers and bitstream formats.

It may also be worth pointing out, in terms of apportioning credit fairly, that ffmpeg has not been Bellard's project since 2004. The thing we see today is no more his project than GCC or Emacs are Stallman's projects.

reactordev 6 hours ago|||
There was a time when we would spend an enormous amount of time defining a spec, so that we can farm out the code. Now, we farm out the spec so that we can spend an enormous amount of time with the code.
ChrisMarshallNY 6 hours ago|||
That's actually how I was trained. The spec and the implementation (and the testing) were separate areas; sometimes, done by different people.

These days, I tend to mix them all together, and I think I get good results.

I strongly suspect that a lot of folks, these days, only do the middle one.

mschuster91 1 hour ago||
> I strongly suspect that a lot of folks, these days, only do the middle one.

Ain't no one willing to pay for all of that. The clear separation is something you only see remaining in academia and industries where code quality issues have legal consequences (i.e. aerospace, marine, automotive and medical), and even there, pressure is high to relax rules viewed as "arcane".

Writing good specifications, documentations, implementation code and tests each is an art form in itself

izacus 6 hours ago|||
If you actually work with ffmpeg, it's rather quite impressive how pluggable the architecture is. The codecs have huge amount of quirks and disagreements about basics (what is a "frame" in audio, subtitle, and video worlds?) and even their environment (passing frames around software and hardware coders is way different).

That fact that you can (almost) freely mix and match processing between such different worlds is quite an achievement and libav (IMO) is decently well designed to allow that.

wswin 5 hours ago|||
Interesting observation, similar manner of work as Linus Torvalds. These guys implement existing ideas well, consistent and open, but are not inventors.
apitman 5 hours ago|||
Maybe pi is a spec. Just not written by man.
tennfown 6 hours ago|||
But I was told “spec implementators” were prime for LLM replacement
ex-aws-dude 2 hours ago||
I don’t think the distinction is actually that interesting as you could call any piece of software a spec
pandaforce 10 hours ago||
Bellard hasn't been involved in FFmpeg for *over 20 years* at this point, and more like 23. His code was not great and reeked of sphagetti due to FFmpeg back then lacking any framework for code sharing between components and codecs. These days none of his code survives. Everything that became of FFmpeg is because of other developers. Yet he's treated as the one-and-only BDFL of FFmpeg, with any other developers building upon his wise framework since time immemorial. These days all he does is hold the copyright, which lets him, *and only him*, elect which project/leader may call itself FFmpeg. He's an unelected dictator, who already used his powers once to ostracize libav developers in favor of another dictator.
Beretta_Vexee 10 hours ago||
We mustn’t forget the context: FFmpeg and Videolan got their start in dorm rooms, where students used them to stream TV in the dorm and share movies.

The Polytechnique and École Centrale campuses are just a few kilometers apart, and both projects began around 1997–1998.

I don’t know about you, but as a student, I was too busy drinking beer to write clean code.

mkl 10 hours ago|||
> These days all he does is hold the copyright

You mean trademark. The copyright is held by the authors of the code (or their employer, etc.), since there is no copyright assignment requirement.

This is similar to how Linus Torvalds owns the "Linux" trademark (in some jurisdictions), but the copyright mostly belongs to other contributors.

alecco 10 hours ago|||
I just found this comment from 15y ago on the ffmpeg/libav drama: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/vvdxn/comment/c57zdk...

I don't know ffmpeg but this resonates with my experience with other open source projects.

account42 10 hours ago||
Sounds about right. Don't know about the internal politics around the original maintainer but the libav folks never seemed right to me. I was glad at the time that the distro I was using left the choice up to the user.

As far as the accusations against both rejecting patches and/or rewriting the code themselves goes I can empathize. It's not always easy to take on maintenance of code that isn't written like you want it to, even if the difference is ultimately immaterial. Sucks when this happens to a fundamental project that is used everywhere though. A good maintainer does need to have some ego but not too much it seems.

nasretdinov 8 hours ago|||
1. I don't believe anyone in their right mind thinks that ffmpeg is still maintained and developed by a single person, and definitely not by Fabrice 2. Spaghetti code or not matters very little, especially in the beginning, before you even know or understand the scope of the project and what it can become in the future. You can indeed refactor code when you understand the requirements better, and it's great that it's what the community did. I still think it was the right call to start with the spaghetti mess to not be dragged down by potential future problems that might never materialise because your project became something very different from what you originally had in mind
CuriouslyC 3 hours ago||
> 2. Spaghetti code or not matters very little, especially in the beginning, before you even know or understand the scope of the project and what it can become in the future.

Demonstrably false. Here and on Reddit, everyone will dogpile on a project to call it slop and flag it if they see code smells they don't like. Unless it was written by someone they already know and like from twitter devgooning, in which case it's amazing and everyone should use it.

bigfishrunning 1 hour ago||
it's possible that "popular on HN and Reddit" is not a universal goal for writing code...
CuriouslyC 35 minutes ago||
It isn't, but if you're sharing something and you care about people seeing/using it, they're the most "democratic" places to do it. Twitter/YouTube can work well but they're rich get richer platforms.
keyle 10 hours ago|||
Thanks, that maybe one side of the coin but it's very one-sided. The man is busy innovating and maybe has no time to carry on as he focuses on other projects. But he was there from the start and made it happen.

Most of the code in the linux kernel today is not from Linus.

gus_massa 5 hours ago|||
> He's an unelected dictator

He has no real power. You can fork the project and organize an election.

jdw64 10 hours ago|||
You could be right. I don't really know much about FFMpeg. But going from 0 to 1 and going from 1 to 100 are different. Usually, people remember the 0 to 1 step more. Symbolic capital tends to go to the first mover. It might feel unfair, but we always remember the first challenger. It might be spaghetti code, there might be countless contributions later, but that's usually how it goes
lnsru 10 hours ago|||
What you describe is obvious corporate management path. You start with MVP, it gets traction, bosses like you and then others will code for the original author dismantling and rewriting original MVP. And don’t be shy - if one can pull this off he’s worth the credits. There are many who can code and not much who can manage.
Sesse__ 3 hours ago|||
> due to FFmpeg back then lacking any framework for code sharing between components and codecs

Funny, I remember this being completely different; FFmpeg bundled ffserver, which transcoded to a bunch of codecs at the same time (sharing motion search and everything) precisely to demonstrate how similar the codecs were and how much could be shared. (Of course, that could easily be spaghetti, but not spaghetti for non-code-sharing reasons.) All on the 400MHz-class machines we had at the time. Do I remember wrong? I haven't looked at these old releases in forever.

mihaic 7 hours ago|||
Interesting counterpoint. I think this is the Peter principle in software: a lot of people are great at prototyping, but not great at the next stages of the project. Other people step in for those, but their existence is mostly ignored, since they can't easily fit inside a narrative.

One think to note though is unelected dictators do have their benefits, even if they come with obvious downsides.

doppp 10 hours ago|||
You alright, mate?
raverbashing 10 hours ago|||
The psyop about "only shipping clean code" has been a big drag on projects

On the real world, if it runs and solves their problem nobody gives a fucc. Period

Props on him.

fdsfsdsd 6 hours ago||
Watch how developers breathlessly defend code quality and stand tall ready to die on the hill against "AI slop". Craftsmanship, quality control, oh, it's all so, so important. No, it's absolutely vital to civilization.

Then witness the amazing reversal when some member of The Tribe pushes unbelievably unreadable slop that works. Then we see his Ring getting kissed by all the betas: "if it work, it works".

Pick a side. Quality is important or not?

Calavar 4 hours ago|||
To call out The Tribe as hypocritical, you first need The Tribe to have a consensus opinion. Agentic coding in particular has been very polarizing both on HN and in the developer community at large - there is no consensus opinion.
youarecringe 5 hours ago||||
Before AI Slop most code quality that ran in production was shit, that's the GP's point. Anyone who thinks otherwise simply did not have to come in contact with a wide variety of code in their job.
fdsfsdsd 5 hours ago||
Yet these same developers, these slop machines, are willing to die for "craftsmanship" and "code quality" when they are threatened by statistics. I don't see how you addressed my point.
stevenhuang 2 hours ago||
Nuance is not your specialty, clearly
CuriouslyC 3 hours ago|||
This is a case of tribalism, absolutely zero rationality and people will do mental gymnastics or get nasty if you try to force it. These people have decided that they HATE AI, and LOVE gooning on famous programmers, and public stances they take will support that, logic or consistency be damned.
stackedinserter 2 hours ago|||
Also it's worth mentioning that gstreamer is far more superior than ffmpeg, with its bindings, plugin architecture, control over stream (valves, tees, etc) and overall quality of code.
thedevilslawyer 10 hours ago|||
That's just, like, your opinion man
wiseowise 9 hours ago||
[flagged]
delichon 3 hours ago||
I have wondered if I sequentially ask people who is the smartest living person they know, and ask that person next, would it lead me toward the same small group of geniuses. If I were doing that with the best living coder I might well start with Carmack. So next I'd have to go to Bellard, and hope that his answer isn't Carmack.
santiagobasulto 5 hours ago||
Bellard has a very interesting project that is `ts_zip`, a compression algorithm powered by LLMs. It's just an "experiment" and should never be used in production, but very smart.

The description on his website is amusing: "The ts_zip utility can compress (and hopefully decompress) text files using a Large Language Model"

https://bellard.org/ts_zip/

hbn 4 hours ago||
> (and hopefully decompress)

If the decompression is optional, I've got a really impressive compression algorithm in mind!

notpachet 3 hours ago||
That's my favorite algorithm of all time
AceJohnny2 3 hours ago|||
There is a field of competitive compression algorithms, where time and computation are not factors. People have made compressors that take hours (days?) to compress the test corpus.

A long-running kinda-joke in the field is that the upper-bound of compression is "AI-complete", where instead of compressing, say, the text data of the complete works of Shakespeare, the compressor just encodes "The Complete Works of Shakespeare", and the AI decompressor re-generates the output from that prompt.

With the advent of LLMs, Bellard just made that joke a reality.

zeroq 5 hours ago||
But that's exactly what LLMs are. :)

My mental model and go to ELI5 is "imagine you compressed the whole internet into a zip-like archive and you have an extremely clever and efficient way to search it for data".

I'm old enough to remember the time when you could order wikipedia on CDs and I don't see much difference between that and downloading LLM.

throwaway2037 9 hours ago||
For those unaware, you can find Fabrice's website here: https://bellard.org/

It has a full list of his projects.

slmjkdbtl 7 hours ago|
Great programmers often also have great personal website design, everything is so clear and not one bit of redundance.
rafram 3 hours ago|||
It's really not a great design. It's just nerdy in a HN way. A great website would list projects in approximate order of importance/notability, would use the tiniest bit of CSS to make the text readable on wide screens, and would have images for projects with a visual component. The only reason his site is appealing is because you already know who he is.
ecshafer 18 minutes ago|||
I am on a 27" 4k screen and that website is very readable to me. Should the text all be in a single column in the center taking 10% of the screen like 99% of blogs now?

Chronological or Alphabetical sorting would make more sense than importance.

rafram 1 minute ago||
Anything above ~1000px is considered difficult to read, yes. For example, the W3C Web Content Accessibility Guidelines require that the site at least provides a mechanism to set the width to 80 characters, or about 1000px at a standard font size: https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#visual-presentation

You can push it if you want to maximize horizontal space utilization - the site you're on right now, for example, caps reflowing text to about 1200px - but reading is easier when you have to scan over less horizontal distance, and there's literally no reason not to set some max-width.

ryan_n 1 hour ago||||
I agree it's not the most pleasant site to visit. I understand peoples desire to move the web back towards simplicity/html only with no js. But a little bit of css does not hurt and would make simple sites like this a lot more enjoyable to look at. Just my opinion..
justin66 3 hours ago|||
> A great website would list projects in approximate order of importance/notability

Why?

allenu 1 hour ago||
I imagine they're suggesting that so someone who lands on the page and is unaware of Bellard can immediately know what he is (famously) known for instead of having to scroll through the long list of projects.
throwaway2037 6 hours ago||||
The website of Daniel J. Bernstein is similar: https://cr.yp.to/djb.html

Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_J._Bernstein

Capricorn2481 49 minutes ago||||
> Great programmers often also have great personal website design, everything is so clear and not one bit of redundance.

It's literally just a list of <p> tags. This is ridiculous. It's running a single sentence across the entire window.

gverrilla 5 hours ago||||
> not one bit of redundance

What about the url on the first displayed line?

Not saying it's bad - got me thinking about this self-reference that most modern websites do with the logo on the header.

fatata123 6 hours ago|||
[dead]
sph 11 hours ago||
First time I see his picture, and it’s a bit like someone’s revealed the identity of Satoshi Nakamoto when it’s clear they are going out of their way to protect their privacy and stay out of the limelight.

My impression is the guy had always better things to do than engage with the greater internet, like thinking real hard and solving difficult problems. Much respect to his work, but even more respect to his work ethic. When you have a strong vision, you need the ivory tower style of development rather than spending your days arguing and defending your choices with internet strangers.

keyle 10 hours ago||
No he never hid his identity, if you looked him up, you found his picture.

Satoshi shouldn't be compared, I don't hold bitcoins nor am I interested, but the name is a lore. It was stamped on the original document.

Fabrice Bellard is a real person shipping code; not an internet anonymous identity.

coldtea 10 hours ago|||
Parent knows. He makes an analogy, not an absolute equivalence.
f17428d27584 2 hours ago|||
Right, but the analogy is very clearly about someone trying to hide / protect their identity, which doesn’t apply in this case.

Perhaps it was trying to stretch it to “unknown figure”, saying this programmer is mysterious, even though it was not by choice but circumstance: fame has eluded him. (Not implying it’s desired).

But on that reading, I would still say the metaphor fails: it’s not effective at conveying this meaning and reads more like an unnecessary Satoshi name drop.

sph 2 hours ago||
> unnecessary Satoshi name drop

"Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain". I apologise.

bravetraveler 9 hours ago|||
[flagged]
alfiedotwtf 9 hours ago||
This thread is why he is not on Twitter
bravetraveler 9 hours ago||
Fascinating, I'm not there for other reasons. So, about that costly Tea...
herodoturtle 7 hours ago||
And I'm here wondering if there's a limit to HN's nested replies.
bravetraveler 7 hours ago||
I'll continue to do my part as time allows, also curious. Anyway, if enough flag the top [like I did], it'll collapse.
Barbing 3 hours ago|||
You found a comment to flag in this thread? Didn’t catch rulebreaking myself.
bravetraveler 3 hours ago||
Sure, I didn't restrict to rule breaking. As I already said, it serves the function of compressing the conversation others complained about.
Barbing 3 hours ago||
Downvotes may offer that function too, I think.

Thought the flag was “hey this guy can’t call me a doodoohead with no ‘J/K’ at the end!”, rule break like rudeness or spam or slop

Guess I better read the rules

Edit: IDK why I can’t always downvote. Sometimes see it on a comment’s permalink page. Guessing some karma factors at play (lifetime upvotes received per user, can’t downvote more senior users maybe)

bravetraveler 3 hours ago||
> Downvotes may offer that function too, I think.

Not quite as effectively, but sure. De-ranked consumption of vertical space instead of complete compression. Anyway, many tools one may choose. Not mutually exclusive or expensive.

> Guess I better read the rules

I'm sure someone will link them for us [again, vertical space!]. You're fine, however. Not super familiar with the heuristics, but I do know... downvoting gets blocked once you reply, do it first.

kmstout 5 hours ago|||
Every so often, ask others just how far their ideas go.
bravetraveler 5 hours ago||
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Observe, etc.
bitwize 11 hours ago|||
As I say, Bellard is Mozart when most of us can't even hope to be Salieri.
audunw 10 hours ago|||
Mozart doesn’t feel right. The code isn’t beautiful and elegant. It’s not built to last (at least for ffmpeg) or be some kind of masterpiece. He writes code to get a job done or tickle some intellectual curiosity. It’s not beautiful but that’s OK.

I think Unicorn illustrates one of the issues with his style. It wouldn’t have needed to exist of the QEMU code was architected into neat components. But then writing spaghetti code that gets the job done is why he’s so fast and effective. It’s a trade off

https://www.unicorn-engine.org/docs/beyond_qemu.html

I think there’s actually a sharp contrast with John Carmack here. Fabrice might be smarter and faster but Carmack is perhaps a better software engineer. You can really see the development of his style from Doom and Quake source code, where Quake 3 source is like a beautiful gem of a code base.

hnlmorg 10 hours ago|||
I think developers sometimes get too obsessed with code quality thinking that smarter code makes them a better developer. In fact I’ve seen developers fall into the trap of mistaking their code as the product and thus spend so much time beautifying it that that fail to ever release anything.

Then you have the other end of the spectrum where people are too focused on hacking stuff together that the end result is unmaintainable.

The reality is there needs to be a bit of both to be a good developer.

For example, if you’re building a proof of concept (POC), then it’s more important to prove the idea than it is to define the architecture. And the reason for that is because you don’t always understand how the final product (whether it’s commercial software or a FOSS library) is best architected until you’ve gone through a few drafts of the idea. So spaghetti code isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

But then when you know your idea works and you need to flesh it out into something more durable, you start to refactor the spaghetti into something more maintainable.

Fabrice mainly releases POCs while Carmack mainly releases finished products. So it’s unsurprising you’ll see a difference in the style of architecting in their code.

I used to be someone who focused on beautiful code for my POCs too. And used to fail to release any personal projects. Then one day I learned to embrace the chaos of POCs and realised that you can getting something built and tarting it up afterwards was better than failing to build anything at all.

21asdffdsa12 9 hours ago|||
But the code quality is speed. And reach. You can not advance, unless you can read the code, you can understand the model, you can not scale beyond a certain point. The beauty of the architecture is the ability to build a spaceship compared to a train of kerosene tankers. Physically similar, but in capability radical different.

I find this very scary. Somebody unable to perceive capabilities and tech-debt. If you can not perceive that- you should not be let near executive decisions or code-base evaluation. This is literally the difference between rocket-science and exploding failed projects. Everyone can pile up explosives, not everyone can go to space today.

Its a great interview topic to filter this kind of candidate out of companies.

overfeed 1 hour ago|||
> But the code quality is speed. And reach. You can not advance, unless you can read the code, you can understand the model, you can not scale beyond a certain point

Other people can do the important work of investing time to understand the model and simplify the code architecture, as proven many times over by actively maintained projects pioneered by Fabrice.

To kickstart a project, you have to show people that something they assumed impossible or hard to achieve is actually possible by dropping it in front of them.

> Its a great interview topic to filter this kind of candidate out of companies.

Fabrice Bellard ships. It makes sense to filter him out if you're a bank or an org with well-established products that prefers stability over velocity. If you're a start-up or have lots of greenfield projects requiring fast experimentation loops: you need folk who can ship quickly. Most organizations have a mix of projects and need a healthy mix of engineers, or ones who can flip modes relevant to the project.

hnlmorg 8 hours ago||||
> But the code quality is speed

No it’s not. Code quality is just code quality. It's a subjective measure. eg how do you define one thing is of greater "quality" than another? Is it CPU ops? Memory footprint? Code readability? And how do you measure readability? By who? What I find readable someone else might not, and visa versa.

If you’re making choices to improve development throughput then that’s fine. But so often I see developers architecting code for what they mistakenly think will improve their throughput but ultimately they spend longer on writing those abstractions than any time they have saved when using them.

XKCD parodies this problem with their pass the salt sketch: https://xkcd.com/974/

Sometimes this comes down to developer vanity, sometimes it comes down to poor alignment of goals and/or communication between the product teams and development teams. And sometimes it’s just because solving problems is fun so naturally we’ll look for problems to solve. But whatever the reasons, I’ve personally seen this happen (as well as being a victim of it myself) enough times to know it is an underestimated problem.

> I find this very scary. Somebody unable to perceive capabilities and tech-debt. If you can not perceive that- you should not be let near executive decisions or code-base evaluation.

This is a rather insulting assumption. I've been a tech lead for around 2 decades now and have worked on plenty of brownfield projects in that time. I know what tech debt looks like.

The problem with "tech debt" is it can mean anything from "this is ugly code that takes 5 minutes longer to read but it works well" to "this in a insecure/unstable pile of horse manure and customers will start to notice".

The latter is where time should be spent. The former is a vanity project that doesn't bring the business any value.

That's not to say that developers shouldn't ever spend time on the former examples of tech debt, just that it's of a lower priority than getting the project working.

ryandrake 6 hours ago|||
This is one of the reasons I got away from writing commercial software and now only write code as a hobby.

To me, the code itself is the product. I want the code to look like a beautiful painting—the fact that it does something is secondary. I’ll sit there for hours working on things like const correctness, and making sure each class has the bare minimum amount of state/instance variables, making sure function arguments are named and ordered consistently, even though it has no effect on user-visible bugs or runtime performance. I’m the kind of person that paints the back of the cabinet. Even though no user will see it, I will know it is there.

Obviously this mentality is at odds with commercial software’s imperative to shit out barely working spaghetti code as fast and cheaply as possible, so I opted out.

cgh 2 hours ago|||
“Paints the back of the cabinet” is a great analogy. LLM-driven production is so far away from this mindset.
lanstin 2 hours ago||||
Have you ever done research mathematics? To me, the only difference between code and math is that the code can do things, make stuff happens in the world; outside of that, mathematics has a lot more opportunities to be beautiful (not to say that there isn't beautiful code, but the beauty is not central in the way it often is in mathematics).
hnlmorg 4 hours ago||||
Yeah, a lot of businesses definitely do push things too far the other way and advocate releasing _anything_ regardless of how well it works.

I'm strongly against the "move fast and break things" mentality. But there is a happy middle ground between architecting works of art, and shipping urinals with faulty plumbing.

fdsfsdsd 5 hours ago|||
Although in this case it's more like using the paint in the tin to paint the tin itself. It's useless and completely missing the point of why the paint exists in the first place.

You do you, I'm sorry if I come across rude and stupid, but I am both things. But "code is the product" is what IMO caused the downfall of this entire profession. No wonder everyone is trying to get rid of us. I wouldn't want a plumber that's obsessed with the tubes itself and not whether my house has working plumbing in a reasonable time frame and within budget.

stouset 2 hours ago|||
Despite the gallons of ink spilled on the subject I have not worked at a single place in my 30-year career where developers sat around perfecting masterpieces.

I have worked at a never-ending list of places where people shipped the first thing that worked, built spaghetti around it, something else got built on top, and the original thing is now critical infrastructure that takes 10x longer to fix bugs or add needed features to than it would have if we’d taken 1.5x longer to ship it in the first place. I have worked at a never-ending list of places where developers beg for time to be set aside to deal with the worst parts that sap their time, energy, or will to continue working at the job. I have worked at a never-ending list of places that eventually sets aside a few days to tackle these tasks, when the engineers estimate two or three weeks. I have worked at a never-ending list of places that then uses the failure of these momentary diversions as evidence that their engineers don’t know what they’re talking about and should shut up and ship more features.

I sure wish I knew what masterpiece factories you must have spent your career working at.

agentultra 1 hour ago||
I feel like the navel-gazing-ivory-tower programmer is almost a straw man used by commenters and bloggers to make themselves sound pragmatic. Summoned only be be torn down. Never to be found on an existing software team.

I have come across the architecture astronaut before. But I feel like they’re the result of the culture of the ecosystem the language. The Java and C# programmers whose language requires you to juggle weak types with visibility keywords and null ability. They can be forgiven for not being able to implement a priority queue without a committee and a class hierarchy deeper than the Mariana Trench.

But the perfectionist that never ships anything useful and only ever tweaks interfaces and types? Never met one.

Most people are just trying to balance progress with practical concerns.

qdotme 5 hours ago|||
I’ve been in this profession for two decades as well. As both things.

My take on this is that we need both, because the market is cyclical. It’s just that it’s hard to perceive any of those cycles if you (a) live them (b) are not experienced enough to introspect.

I absolutely would love an obsessed plumber (and got one!) when it comes to deciding that we’re going to do PTFE tubing in our new house. An obsessed electrician in charge to overinvest into our grid, rather than a 3-month timeframe executive. Otherwise our critical infrastructure gets myopically degraded.

I also want the “working within timeframe” outcome.

And we, as an industry, swing wildly in both direction. The Cambrian explosion of shareware was the the former. We course-corrected into cathedrals of good software (I still love Windows 2000’s stability, the pinnacle of NT line), followed by the “reasonable timeframe” 4GB Electron apps, etc.

It will swing. Every complex system from logistic equation upwards will oscillate .

dkarl 1 hour ago||||
> The problem with "tech debt" is it can mean anything from "this is ugly code that takes 5 minutes longer to read but it works well" to "this in a insecure/unstable pile of horse manure and customers will start to notice". > > The latter is where time should be spent. The former is a vanity project that doesn't bring the business any value.

You may have worked with people whose meaning of "code quality" encompassed things that you found inconsequential and a waste of effort. They may have even told you that if you didn't care about those things, then you didn't care about code quality. But that's not true. It only meant you disagreed with them about what code quality is and how to recognize it.

You draw a distinction between aspects of code that tend to lead to better outcomes and aspects of code that don't matter. You say you know what tech debt looks like. When you look at a codebase, you have opinions on where time should be spent to improve it. "Code quality" is shorthand for the heuristics underlying those opinions.

Instead of accepting that other, possibly dumber people get to define what code quality is, own your own definition of it and use it when you communicate with other people.

hnlmorg 1 hour ago||
I don't think you're being very charitable in your reading of my comments. For example:

> You may have worked with people whose meaning of "code quality" encompassed things that you found inconsequential and a waste of effort. They may have even told you that if you didn't care about those things, then you didn't care about code quality. But that's not true. It only meant you disagreed with them about what code quality is and how to recognize it.

Who's these "people" you're referring to? This is an imaginary conversation you've added.

What I actually said was that there's a balance between design and output.

I did generalize that often product people will push too far towards output and often developers will push too far between design, but like all generalizations, I know there are exceptions (eg me).

But the crux of my point is that there are tradeoffs between the two, and thus times when it makes more sense to lean towards output and times when it makes more sense to focus on design.

What you've replied with isn't even remotely the same sentiment as the comment I made.

> You draw a distinction between aspects of code that tend to lead to better outcomes and aspects of code that don't matter. You say you know what tech debt looks like. When you look at a codebase, you have opinions on where time should be spent to improve it. "Code quality" is shorthand for the heuristics underlying those opinions.

No. Code quality is just a subjective term that means nothing in reality because everyone will have different goals in mind when they think about the purpose of the code.

So the underlying heuristics require far insight into project goals, deadlines, and resources than just "code quality".

> Instead of accepting that other, possibly dumber people get to define what code quality is,

The original reason I replied (albeit I did digress quite a bit) was to demonstrate that you cannot extrapolate how smart or dumb an engineer is from their "code quality" alone. So please refrain from calling people dumb in your rebuttals.

> own your own definition of it and use it when you communicate with other people.

That's literally what I've done.

---

This comment better summarizes my point: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48555191

brunooliv 8 hours ago|||
Thanks for saying this! I completely agree with everything you said!

There’s far, far too many people who confuse code quality for speed of development and start treating code quality as the product for customer base in the hundreds and active customers in the dozens and for most features to be basically unused.

The reality is that tech debt as a concept these days is hardly real: to be in debt means previous decisions or a previous implementation makes current work extremely hard or impossible, but, the truth is that the human factors such as knowing what to build, team collaboration and even speaking to customers matter far more and can get you “in debt” so so much faster than code alone. At least in your typical SaaS company.

If you ship code in a way that you let tech debt pile up to the point that customers notice it, you have an organisational problem, not code issues per se.

The fact that a lot of people don’t get this is really baffling to me.

21asdffdsa12 6 hours ago|||
Im talking about the speed of mental model building, understanding concepts, relations and organizational concepts.

Good codebases sort of read themselves. You can guess where things are, how they are sorted and how they work, by understanding and relying on the authors ideas.

nandomrumber 6 hours ago|||
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pjmlp 3 hours ago||||
Companies outside software as a product rarely care that much about what their physical goods are processed by IT, this is how you get outsourcing and offshoring of most of their computing needs, they won't care one second to filter such candidates.
MomsAVoxell 9 hours ago||||
“You can read the code”

.. is very, very important in the context of milliseconds, hours, days, weeks, months and years. And decades.

Today, you might say that John/Fabrice’ code is readable/unreadable, but will that also be true in 5 years time, in a different cultural/technological era?

Obviously yes in the case of these individuals - because the ecosystem their products have created is self-sustaining at a mass (consumer/social) level.

I’ve built software which has shipped and effected the lives of millions, too. Many of us have.

But I have not built a massive ecosystem by working on the right software which was adopted by millions of developers who read my code, was inspired by it, and used it for something in their own products - thus creating sub-ecosystems upon sub-ecosystems, a big sprawling tree of economy which spreads out into the mass of humanity who use technology.

In this story we have two cases of individuals who have accomplished an extraordinary reach of software, in their own uniquely flavored ways - and this demonstrates that there are no absolute requirements to strip personality from the code - as long as its damn good code in the first place.

>filter candidates out of companies

It’s a great way to decide not to work at a company which managers do not understand the importance of architecture at various scales, milliseconds, seconds, hours, days, weeks ..

jongjong 2 hours ago||||
I agree with this for complex problems which cannot be vibe coded with AI. So definitely it's an essential skill for any human engineer.
FpUser 4 hours ago||||
>"But the code quality is speed. And reach. You can not advance, unless you can read the code"

I am not sure about "proper" definition of spaghetti code but speaking of long functions: if it is straight code that reads like a book and has no common parts to refactor for further reuse it is actually way more understandable and debuggable then mess of 3 liners spread among 20 files and 10 microservices running under k8s.

>", you can understand the model, you can not scale beyond a certain point"

The needed scaling is being determined by business needs / projection. If you implement service for some SMB that deals with few partners and limited set of business entities in database and architecture of said service addressing Google style of scalability with corresponding overheads and costs you are definitely committing a crime in relation to your client.

>"Its a great interview topic to filter this kind of candidate out of companies." -

basically making sure that instead of pragmatic engineer who can deliver functional and serviceable product to client in reasonable time with reasonable costs you will have them pay for spaceship built by architecture astronauts

gpderetta 8 hours ago|||
great coders ship.
nixon_why69 9 hours ago||||
It's the opposite, better-factored code makes me, a mediocre developer, capable of making progress instead of hitting a complexity wall.

It's separate from striving for "beautiful" code, beauty within well-factored boundaries yields dimishing returns compared to just having the boundaries.

hnlmorg 9 hours ago||
You’re ostensibly arguing the same thing I am though. Focusing on building the thing rather than designing the code to look pretty.
nixon_why69 6 hours ago|||
I haven't read the codebases in question but people were talking about spaghetti code, which would not be well-factored and would impede someone less talented from comprehending it or being able to change it effectively.

I guess I'm saying there are code quality concerns which do affect velocity/maintainability and then there are superficial and stylistic issues. The former aren't just about some kind of beauty standard, they're part of executing.

hnlmorg 4 hours ago||
The comments about Ballard's code is very subjective. But if we take their comments at face value:

> which would not be well-factored and would impede someone less talented from comprehending it or being able to change it effectively.

Except the community did comprehend it and changed it effectively. Ballard hasn't maintained ffmpeg nor qemu for 20+ years.

> I guess I'm saying there are code quality concerns which do affect velocity/maintainability and then there are superficial and stylistic issues. The former aren't just about some kind of beauty standard, they're part of executing.

Which is why I'm saying we're basically arguing the same things. For a POC you get more velocity when focusing on proving that idea. I'm not saying zero effort should be spent on architecting the code. Just that you don't always know how best to organize it until you've had several revisions so developers shouldn't get too caught up trying to intellectualize the best internal layout. That can grow once the problem is better understood.

And I made this point because I felt the comparisons of one engineers POC to another engineers commercial release was unfair. They're completely different ends of the factory.

nixon_why69 4 hours ago||
Ok, yeah I hear you there and agree with basically everything. I've actually made those arguments in different contexts. Thumbs up emoji.
lproven 6 hours ago|||
I don't think "ostensibly" means what you think it means.

But I can't guess what you meant.

nandomrumber 6 hours ago||
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TremendousJudge 3 hours ago||||
>For example, if you’re building a proof of concept (POC), then it’s more important to prove the idea than it is to define the architecture.

I have tried to do this for POCs (just hacking everything together), and I always get stuck very quickly. Then until I figure out some sort of architecture for what I'm supposed to be doing I can't proceed. It's like, once I have the first step (of several) of the a POC working, I literally cannot think of how to implement the second one until the first one is somewhat well organized

psychoslave 7 hours ago|||
> I think developers sometimes get too obsessed with code quality thinking that smarter code makes them a better developer.

Not much about "smartness", but code can by far outlast many "product" sold on top of it, so it can make sense to polish them more than the ready to throw gift paper.

People will certainly buy nice gift paper wrapping cheap crap music toy of the day. But they will also value differently access to a beautiful handcrafted musical instrument. On the other hands, people who don’t even play any music won’t be able to assess any musical appliance.

xyzzy123 8 hours ago||||
I wonder if what you're noticing in Fabrice's code is a lack of _abstraction_ beyond whats obviously needed to get the job done. It's not spaghetti IMHO, I think its what code looks like when you're smart enough to just hold most of the problem in your head. I am speculating a bit here, because I am not that smart.

If I had to describe it in aesthetic terms I would maybe say brutalism?

coldtea 9 hours ago||||
>Mozart doesn’t feel right. The code isn’t beautiful and elegant. It’s not built to last (at least for ffmpeg) or be some kind of masterpiece.

Pedantic much? It's not about him writing elegant code like someone would write elegant music. It's a comparison about the skill level achieved, Mozart-level vs Salieri-level (and in the sense of their Amadeus movie rivalry, not real world).

His code tackles very complex subjects, succesfully, with huge technical skill, and has been reliable and relied upon by millions...

groceries8192 4 hours ago||||
> The code isn’t beautiful and elegant

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What you find beautiful, I would find grotesque, and vice versa. What you think of as well-organized, I think of as spaghetti.

I think it's great that we can have such a diversity of viewpoints on beauty, but I wouldn't advise making universal proclamations on beauty standards.

sph 9 hours ago||||
> I think there’s actually a sharp contrast with John Carmack here. Fabrice might be smarter and faster but Carmack is perhaps a better software engineer.

There’s few things I find more pathetic than trying really hard to show who’s best and ranking things that have no business being ranked.

You will find humans are n-dimensional and elude these simplistic categories.

yaantc 8 hours ago|||
Yes, ranking requires reducing to a single dimension where all interesting things are multi-dimensions. This is a lossy process, which often tells more about the one(s) doing the ranking than what's ranked.
sph 7 hours ago||
I was thinking of sport players that have their stats laid out as a radar chart. One might be average on defense, but a world class striker. Is he better than a world class defender but average striker? And even that is a convenient and lossy approximation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_chart

lambdaone 8 hours ago||||
Carmack and Bellard are both wizards, and trying to rank them is a fool's errand. Let's appreciate them both!
sp0rk 3 hours ago||||
> There’s few things I find more pathetic than trying really hard to show who’s best and ranking things that have no business being ranked.

This seems like a strangely harsh response considering the person you're responding to is just restating the assertion that Carmack made in his tweet.

anthk 6 hours ago|||
Carmack it's a better engineer, but Bellard it's a better thinker and innovator. To each its own.
vkazanov 10 hours ago||||
True. Carmack was polishing idtech for a decade, and his work is always pleasant to tinker with.

Now, what is outstanding in Fabrice's work is that his curiousity projects often end up being breakthroughs.

I mean, i have like hundreds of these. Can emacs do that? I make a compiler to do that? How fast can i make this bytrcode to run?

And it is cute at best.

SwellJoe 10 hours ago||||
"It’s not beautiful but that’s OK."

Really? I find his code elegant and concise.

moralestapia 6 hours ago|||
Oof, HN says the darndest things.

OTOH it's fun to see people comparing programmers (better/worse) as if that actually mattered.

As the internet says, post physique bro.

pwdisswordfishq 9 hours ago|||
Obsessed with poop?
gaigalas 10 hours ago|||
Honestly, two mythologized figures (Carmack and Bellard).

They're good (like, quite good), but as soon as their names come up people start talking about some weird expectation of what they are supposed to think rather than the actual things they did.

Somehow, that mythologizing diminishes their accomplishments.

noisy_boy 9 hours ago|||
Telling stories, looking for gods that don't have our limitations and telling stories about those gods is pretty much in our nature irrespective of the era.
gaigalas 9 hours ago||
There's no such thing as "human nature", that's just a way to justify something that can't be easily explained.

I have nothing against it. The fact that I explained a mechanism (mythologizing diminishes one's real work) offends people who like to do it, but that's outside of my control. It's not meant to offend or deny their right to do it. It is just what it is and I'm naming it. I understand it's uncomfortable, and pulling the "everyone does it" card makes things easier.

I love mythology by the way, stories, etc. Fascinating stuff.

noisy_boy 8 hours ago||
I don't even know what are you arguing against.

> I love mythology by the way, stories, etc. Fascinating stuff.

Most people do. Given that it is quite prevalent across cultures and given that we are a product of our genetics and upbringing, one might even say, in our nature.

gaigalas 8 hours ago||
I think it's the wrong lens for observing this conversation. You're looking for something that I might be attacking. I'm not doing what you think I am, that's why you can't pinpoint it.

It's a simple observation: mythologizing might diminish one's work.

Even if we assume there's some "human nature", that claim stands unchallenged.

"But you can't fight this thing that all humans do" is your line, and it was never my point to fight it. I want to explain what it does, not change it (which is outside of my control).

noufalibrahim 9 hours ago||||
Not exactly my idea. However, it's pleasant to see two people I admire so much having respect for each other.
wang_li 1 hour ago||||
I am of an age with Carmack and wanted to be a game developer when i was young. I very much elevated him very high. In terms of computer graphics he is very informed and talented. But I have watched him do interviews that largely focused on other areas and I find him to be pretty average or even below average. His thoughts on BJJ and AI are quite immature and don't express any special insight.
jongjong 2 hours ago||||
Yeah. They've had their time.
MomsAVoxell 9 hours ago|||
Oh, this is human nature and you will find it impossible to avoid this framing of cult figures, because they are indeed cult figures - albeit positively perceived ones, since they appear to not just be doing it for themselves, but altruistically every wonder they produce is for their users - and thus their works have effectively and productively impacted the lives of millions of other people, at economies of scale most of us here on HN aspire to.

And it is that aspiration you’re degrading with the rush to de-mythologize, as if it weren’t inevitable, under the crushing rush of time, that we in the hacker world had heroes.

gaigalas 9 hours ago||
Humanity has some 300.000 years of existing, and we can only trace back the prevalence of cult figures a few thousand years back.

For all we know, it could be a temporary fluke and we'll snap back to something else. We could be beings with no default to snap back to, ever changing, destined to dissolve the prevalence of cult figures into something else in the following eras.

In a few thousand years we could totally see this practice as some distant-past thing like making clay pots or carrying Roman dodecahedrons.

The new cultural trend could become jumping off cliffs, and someone would be arguing that it's inevitable human nature.

By the way, no rush to de-mythologize. I'm not fighting any dragon here, you do you.

MomsAVoxell 7 hours ago|||
> a few thousand years back

I beg to differ, but okay. I don’t disagree to your allusions that there is a banality to mob idolatry, but that’s a discussion for other forums, ironically.

nixon_why69 3 hours ago|||
We only have writing and, consequently, people who's names we know a few thousand years back.

A cult figure before writing would have more limited reach, and be forgotten because their name wasn't written down. But they'd still have been a cult figure.

Zardoz84 8 hours ago|||
Sad that him can't show the same respect for "Burguer" Rebecca Ann Heineman.
Quarrel 3 hours ago||
err?

afaik Bellard never had any beef with Burger Becky. Both are legendary programmers, but somewhat different eras.

I have no idea what you're suggesting.

TheAmazingRace 2 hours ago||
I think he was referring to Carmack's note on Burger Becky when she passed away.
shevy-java 11 hours ago||
I imagined him with wild, long hair; possibly tattoos, huge and heavy set. The picture destroyed my imagination - and now I want my imagination back. :(
throwaway2037 9 hours ago|||
In my personal experience, uber French nerds don't really fit the Simpsons "Comic Book Guy" appearance stereotype. Anyone else reading this, feel free to disagree.
speedgoose 54 minutes ago||
Yes, it’s difficult to practice climbing if you are obese.
taway20260616 10 hours ago||||
If you want your "imagination" back, go back to watching Netflix and Hollywood cliches.
sph 11 hours ago|||
Except the ‘huge and heavy set’, you’re thinking of tokyospliff here.
huhtenberg 10 hours ago||
Or some version of RMS :)
leonidasrup 10 hours ago||
"Fabrice Bellard" by Andy Gocke and Nick Pizzolato

https://www.ipaidia.gr/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/117-2020-f...

companycalls 8 hours ago||
Do you know if that's the same Nick Pizzolato who wrote True Detective?
jonahx 6 hours ago||
It's not. Different spelling: Nic Pizzolatto.
ShinyLeftPad 9 hours ago|||
It's pretty dated since he's done more stuff since!
throwaway2037 9 hours ago||
Jesus... has that ever been submitted to HN!? It should be.
leonidasrup 9 hours ago||
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46377862
d4rkp4ttern 3 hours ago||
Very very tangential, and at the risk of down-votes, the recent trend of X-articles (or whatever they call them) is extremely irksome. When I try to view on mobile it takes 3-4 hops to get to the article, and the articles always look hyper-optimized for engagement with low-attention-span readers, sort of like LinkedIn posts.

Also there's irony in the stark contrast between this x-article and the Bellard's own website.

cassianoleal 8 hours ago|
> Today FFmpeg is the invisible engine of the internet.

I get what the author is saying but I really dislike this hyperbole. The Internet will be absolutely fine if FFmpeg suddenly disappears.

Companies that rely on it in the core of their product may not, but the Internet absolutely will, and the vast majority of websites and other Internet services will keep working just fine.

ekelsen 3 hours ago||
It's how LLMs write. The tweet / article is written by an LLM and that's how it does.
newsclues 8 hours ago|||
Without YouTube and porn, is there really an internet?
bcjdjsndon 6 hours ago||
More like without video, is there still internet..... Absolutely yes. It's a tad hyperbolic I agree
lolive 6 hours ago|||
My kids strongly disagree.
bcjdjsndon 4 hours ago||
Fortnight isn't a video
lintfordpickle 3 hours ago||
although, somewhat ironic to your argument, I bet the intro that fornite plays when starting the game uses ffmpeg
bcrosby95 3 hours ago||
It would still be a game without the intro video.
DiskoHexyl 6 hours ago|||
For us- sure.

For most of the internet users- very likely no. Social media and video streaming IS the internet for the majority

bigfishrunning 1 hour ago||
it sounds like paradise, we should start working toward this immediately
afavour 7 hours ago||
It’s the invisible engine of what makes up the majority of today’s internet. I don’t think that’s hyperbole. Tomorrows internet might not be the same.
bcjdjsndon 6 hours ago||
Ffmpeg has nothing to do with the internet other than being distributed on it
afavour 5 hours ago|||
It powers the content that makes up a lot of the time a lot of internet users spend their time watching. I don’t think the pedantry serves a purpose.
naasking 4 hours ago|||
Most bytes traversing the internet is video these days. Arguably, ffmpeg has processed most of that video.
bcjdjsndon 2 hours ago||
Then unicode powers the internet by that same logic.
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