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Posted by Pamar 2 days ago

Can you see three trees?(www.not-ship.com)
269 points | 130 comments
mlsu 3 hours ago|
I had a moment a few years ago (while on vacation) after a long flight. We set a blanket out under a huge tree and napped in the park all afternoon. I was staring up at a massive tree for probably 3 or 4 hours straight, basically doing nothing else.

It is remarkable how calming it is to just sit there and stare at a tree.

Now everywhere I live has to have a big tree somewhere nearby. There’s one right outside and I spend at least several minutes, sometimes much longer, just staring at it.

Staring at a tree, 10/10

tetha 5 minutes ago||
I've started something similar in my life. Chris Boltendhal (Founder of Grave Digger) has been criticizing how streaming services had turned music into a wallpaper, and others have too. Something that's just there in the background, but not fully appreciated.

So now I've been making room in my week for new albums of bands I enjoy and listen to. Just an hour or two of nothing, but listening to this album, while sitting in a hammock or somewhere else entirely relaxed.

I can only recommend this. For example, Heilung(1) or Wardruna(2) are already great on theri own, but one of their new songs, but I was listening to one of their songs in a park over here, sitting at a tree and suddenly a little noise was nearby. Turns out, there was a squirrel looking at me and then scampering by. Later on a little bird also was exasperated I looked at him as he chased a bug. Very fitting to these bands.

Sometimes balancing the speed of our lives indeed seems like a very good idea.

1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64CACoHNBEI

2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEizKmZlUAw

weinzierl 1 hour ago|||
Had a class reunion recently and we got a tour through our old school building. Of course everything had changed beyond recognition during the past 30 years, except for one thing:

The old tree right outside the window was still the same. I know because I must have stared into it for hundreds of hours while being bored to no end during class. It probably prevented me from going insane. Thank you old tree.

phatskat 1 hour ago|||
I’ve done this both on and off psychedelics, and both are lovely experiences.

I also dated someone who wasn’t a particularly “crunchy” hippy type, but she did like to randomly hug trees on our walks to show appreciation. I do it now too, there’s something oddly calming and connecting about it - it may look weird, but that’s par for the course for me as it is

thewebguyd 1 hour ago||
There's actually some research to back that up. (Forest bathing & the effects of phytoncides https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2793341/)

Nature, physical touch (even with non-human objects), and being near or touching a big stationary natural object triggers our parasympathetic nervous system too, helps reduce stress.

Everyone should go hug a tree! It's not completely woo woo, there are real biological benefits.

lukan 2 hours ago||
The staring you discovered is actually an old meditation technic. Trees are nice for it, but so can be many other things. A burning candle, the setting sun, a cloud, a river a rock. Important is doing it with intense focus and not get distracted.
sudosteph 5 hours ago||
A few years ago, I spent a summer renting a 1 bedroom new build apartment in the south part of Seattle. The only outside light or fresh air came from a sliding door that overlooked an interior parking garage. It always smelled like fumes. Couldn't even see the sky from most angles. I was convinced after that that living conditions without access to fresh air and nature are probably one of the more potent causes of neuroticism in city-dwellers. Lack of AC didn't help either when it was hitting the 90s at multiple points that summer.

This is probably the one area that most cities in North Carolina excel at. We don't have great sidewalks or transit, but we have a ton a trees. Less than we used to though. But from my current apartment, I'm closer to seeing 300 trees than 3. The post-hurricane-Hugo effort to buy out houses in flood prone zones and turn them into greenways was probably the single smartest thing Charlotte and the surrounding towns have done (though I'm glad we got our light rail too - too bad for Raleigh). It's a good pattern - protects the natural watershed, gives wildlife a safe place to live, makes flooding less impactful, and creates pleasant away-from-road paths for walking and biking.

xattt 3 hours ago||
> The post-hurricane-Hugo effort to buy out houses in flood prone zones …

Toronto completed a similar initiative after Hurricane Hazel in 1954. A number of neighbourhoods in valleys were not rebuilt after devastating flooding, and the city was left with wonderful green space, especially in the Don Valley. For me, it’s a “top 10” biking experience, to cross Toronto by bicycle along the trail system.

As an aside, it took a minute for me to parse the OP as I initially took it to mean some sort of infrastructure resiliency project (buying outhouses vs buying out houses).

(1) https://trca.ca/news/hurricane-hazel-70-years/

chamomeal 3 hours ago||
Greenville, South Carolina is also totally covered in trees. I think they have a bunch of laws that new developments have to plant trees, cutting a tree down requires planting multiple others nearby. The whole city is just covered in trees. Even in the suburbs nearby. It’s awesome.

MD has some replace-felled-trees law, but it’s kinda crappy cause trees can be planted somewhere else entirely. So a big development can be treeless.

ruszki 3 hours ago||
It’s maybe a good rule of thumb, but as I’m just outside of Helsinki for a while now, I’ve just realized what’s the difference between here and everywhere in central and south Europe: the trees are large and old. Even if there are trees in Vienna, Budapest, Brussels etc they are small, and very young compared to here. Even in the greener small Belgian villages, they are not that green than here, just outside of Helsinki’s city center.

And here, somehow, that stupid excuse that they destroy utility cables and pipes didn’t cause to cut them out. It seems that it’s possible to solve this.

And of course, I’m basically in a forest. There are trees everywhere. The “park” here is an at least 100 years old forest. There is one about 30 meters from here, and about 500 meters an even larger one, where I’ve just lost today.

Of course, the city center is different, but even comparing the outskirts of other cities, this is very-very green.

Vivtek 1 hour ago||
Depends on what part of Budapest. One of the reasons people like Zugló (14th district) is the many trees. And farther out it's even better, of course.

But a lot of the trees in Hungary just don't grow that big, maybe the most marked difference when I first saw it after growing up in Indiana. When we lived in the 16th district of Budapest, there was one neighborhood I used to walk the dog in that had these massive old American sycamores. Those things were beautiful.

roughly 39 minutes ago||
As they say, the best time to plant a tree was 20 (or 200) years ago…
xondono 6 hours ago||
I think these simplifications end up hurting more than helping.

30% tree cover looks very different depending on the trees your municipality chooses.

For example, Barcelona covers everything with a variety of Platanus, which is easier to keep than other trees, but it’s quite dirty and produces A LOT of pollen. For me, that I’m allergic to it, it just makes the city unavailable for 2-4 weeks every year.

Having smaller plants, with more variety also feels much better than just sprinkling the right amount of massive trees with equal spacing. I’m pretty convinced part of the “we need more green” feeling people get is actually “I need something in my environment to not look like a grid”.

idoubtit 5 hours ago||
I also think these are harmful simplifications, for several reasons.

First of all, I'm skeptical about the study that proves that people seeing three trees have better mental health. There are so many factors that it's hard to separate one. A solid study would compare families living in the same building, roughly at the same floor, and with similar parameters (family size, income, education, street noise, etc.). Comparisons from different buildings induce too many side factors. I think that collecting this sample would be very hard. I can't access the full-text behind the paywall, so I don't know their methodology, and their abstract is vague, so I fear the paper is meaningless.

Then do people really watch that much through their windows? I'd be surprised that having a glimpse of a few trees at home once a day could change anyone's life.

Even if trees did has a positive impact on mental health, I suppose inciting people to bike or walk (at least partly) to workplaces and stores would dwarf that impact, for mental and physical health.

Lastly, the 30% of tree cover seems arbitrary. For the same percentage, would covering every street with trees have the same impact as keeping trees inside parks? I think the goal to provide places where people go for a walk requires different solutions than the goal to reduce the heat in a concrete jungle.

qbit42 4 hours ago||
I think shade is a big factor here. Trees can really cool down a neighborhood.
lstodd 54 minutes ago||
Big factor is evapotranspiration. Shade is less useful.
watwut 6 hours ago||
> Having smaller plants, with more variety also feels much better than just sprinkling the right amount of massive trees with equal spacing.

The thing people want from trees is shading and general cooling of the environment. Small plants provide much less of that and the summers are increasingly hot.

lmf4lol 10 hours ago||
One thing that I really really like about living in Amsterdam, is that we have trees and plants everwhere. Also, for 2 years now, city stopped cutting most of the plant growth in parks and on the side of roads. Its so beautiful green and colourful now and insects are having a great time. I counted this year already 6 different sorts of humblebees in my garden.
RetroTechie 8 hours ago||
Also us Dutchies have this thing called "tegelwippen":

https://www.nk-tegelwippen.nl

It's a competition about which municipality can remove most pavement tiles & replace with greenery.

People do this on their own too - guerilla gardening style. It's not uncommon to ride through a city street, and see a strip of pavement tiles removed & some flowers in there. Or some plants dangling from a pot attached to a street light. As long as postal workers & elderly people with strollers can still pass, most municipalities support this.

_heimdall 7 hours ago||
We did this in front of out old house in Scheveningen. The hofje had a very small shared space behind us so we pulled up the first foot of bricks in the street side of the house and planted flowers.
gpvos 6 hours ago|||
Still, apparently Amsterdam somehow doesn't satisfy the 30% criterion at all. Can anyone find detailed numbers? I live there and my street is lined with large trees.
ricardobeat 2 hours ago||
Was thinking the same. There must be some glitch in how this is calculated, as we definitely have >30% tree coverage in every city. Maybe the vast areas of shrub-filled countryside and farmland are skewing the data.
TimByte 8 hours ago|||
This is a good reminder that "green" does not have to mean perfectly manicured
drcongo 7 hours ago||
One of the reasons I moved from London to the town I'm in now was how much effort our local council puts in to maintaining the town's greenery. There's dedicated wildflower areas all over the place to encourage insects, which in turn encourages the bird life.
luuundonjk 11 hours ago||
I was walking in central London and something felt wrong. I couldn't quite tell what though, but I had this constant feeling of unease.

It took me a few days to understand - there are no trees in central London (the City).

Sure, you have a small/big park here and there, but no random trees on side walks. It's literally a (beautiful) concrete/glass wasteland.

Note: I only walked a few of the main streets, I'm sure I'm exaggerating a bit, but it's quite noticeable compared with other cities after you realize it. And there are random trees in other areas, outside City of London.

jamiecurle 10 hours ago||
I'm not sure what parts of London you were in, but there's many trees in London on sidewalks. There's even a specific species for it - the London plane (Platanus × hispanica)

If you're in the very new, constantly rebuilt, concrete jungle that is the very small part of the city, then OK, greenery is going to be hard to spot. Particularly as they tend to nearly always choose the wrong species to plant and aftercare is an afterthought. But your assessment is factually incorrect.

See for yourself. Go to Google maps, drop a good few street view randomly around the city and you'll see that more often than not you'll see trees.

Also, I have a networks in arboriculture who work in the city and they're never short on work.

I'm not doubting your experience of unease or a concrete/glass wasteland (that's yours and not mine to question) but the facts don't support the statement of no random trees on pavements (side walks).

I live in the North, but I'm often in London.

thebrid 10 hours ago|||
I'd echo the gp's thoughts. There are parts of the City and the West End that are basically devoid of trees.

My biggest bugbear in London is the number of developments that have a "token tree" with one lonely tree in one corner, often doing quite poorly, presumably included to check some item on a planning consent checklist.

Of course, London has many green spaces and on the whole has plenty of trees, it's just they're quite unevenly distributed.

NoboruWataya 9 hours ago|||
> Of course, London has many green spaces and on the whole has plenty of trees, it's just they're quite unevenly distributed.

I would say they are pretty well distributed through places where people actually tend to live. I live in a pretty average residential area in zone 3 and not only are there nice parks nearby but there are plenty of trees. London is of course massive so I can't say it's the same everywhere but most residential areas I've visited have been quite green. The City and West End (very much commercial/touristy areas) are the exception in my experience.

jamiecurle 10 hours ago|||
Maybe I'm just in different places. Normally I'm walking from Kings Cross down Grey street and around Covent Garden type areas.

I'm nearly always on foot. Perhaps it's just because I'm also an arborist and I'm hard wired to see trees and avoid places that don't have them?

The token tree thing is a problem. Daisy Barrington was part of webinar on the topic as part of the Arboricultural Associations webinar series [0]. Rarely do the species planted get based on local ecology and or have a solid aftercare plan. They're normally chosen for immediate aesthetic look (Paper / Himalayan birch being the most common) rather than how they'd exist over time.

In short birch being a pioneer species is short lived (80 years), grows fast towards light and dislikes being pruned. Where as oaks, norway maple, London planes ( some of which are "climax species") etc live for longer, grow slower and respond to pruning better, support local ecology better and some don't mind the pollution of an urban environment so much.

[0]: https://youtu.be/Kql22dZlq6o?t=2407

dcminter 7 hours ago||||
The City of London, aka "The City", aka "The Square Mile" is not the same thing as Greater London or even what's usually called "Central London." I don't think "Central London" has an agreed exact definition, but it's likely what you thought the parent post meant.

The City is a specific area, more or less covering the same area as the original Roman city. It's the original financial district - though a lot of that moved to Docklands at the tail end of the 1900s.

It's much more built up than even adjacent Westminster ("The City of Westminster") and definitely has far fewer trees.

TimByte 8 hours ago||||
I don't think the point is that London literally lacks pavement trees. As you say, the London plane is almost part of the city's visual identity in many areas. The interesting thing to me is how uneven the experience can be
jamiecurle 8 hours ago||
Totally, "the city" (EC1/2/3/4) as the GP says is pretty barren, especially the newer built areas.

My guess would be that the bio-diversity net gain calculations put the ecological investment off-site where it was more practical.

It's a shame though as trees and architecture can happily co-exist with each other. Living walls and well kept green areas are entirely possible.

luuundonjk 10 hours ago|||
open Google maps at Monument station, find a tree in the area. all the streets in that region of London (let's say 1 sq km) are quite narrow, I would guess there just is not enough space for street trees.
jamiecurle 9 hours ago|||
When I drop a pin to Monument station I see a sign, so I spin the view around. In canon street I see two trees (no leaves - winter). They're hard to see as they're behind a black cab.

Clicking once into Canon street towards those trees presents me with the trees. They're now in leaf and look like Sorbus intermedia "swedish whitebeam" and the key id is the margin on the leaf and the green fruits. Photo was taken July/August as prior to that they're in the flowering phase (beautiful to see btw).

When I spin the view down Canon street I see three mature trees in full leaf on pavements / sidewalks.

As I said in another reply, I'm an arborist and I'm hardwired to see trees and perhaps I subconsciously avoid areas that have none, so maybe that's bias on my part.

juntoalaluna 7 hours ago|||
The article links to the Tree Equity Project (https://uk.treeequityscore.org/map) which has pretty detailed measures for London. Some very central areas do go as low as 2-3%, but they are probably the exception rather than the rule.
agumonkey 4 hours ago|||
Different countries / geographies have these very different relationship with nature. I remember coming back from small islands in the caribeans, and there nature is overwhelming, the size and density. Just after landing home (france) I felt suddenly naked from the lack of vegetation, there were trees but one every 400m on large avenues. It felt empty.
jamiecurle 9 hours ago|||
Maybe we're both right and wrong at the same time.

Here's a map of the canopy data.

https://apps.london.gov.uk/public-realm-trees/explore

almostkindatech 9 hours ago|||
Agreed when it comes to the City of London (for anyone not familiar, this means the financial centre). It can feel pretty grim walking there at times.

Elsewhere though, possible to plan continuous walks through greenish spaces. One starting at Victoria: Belgravia back streets, Hyde Park, Grosvenor Square, Marylebone High Street, Regents Park, Primrose Hill, Belsize Park, Hampstead Heath.

graemep 9 hours ago|||
I am not sure whether GP means the City or central London in general.

It gets greener as you go further out.

One of the big problems in the UK has been the rise of low maintenance gardens, replacing plants with decking concrete, gravel etc.

adammarples 8 hours ago||
They mean the City of London. They capitalised the C and everything, it's a thing.
graemep 6 hours ago||
> I was walking in central London .... there are no trees in central London (the City).

It makes me wonder whether they know which bit is actually the City.

later on:

> Sure, you have a small/big park here and there

What big park is there within the City? The whole of the City is smaller than Hyde Park (including Kensington Gardens).

TimByte 8 hours ago|||
The green space exists, but access to it is often something you have to deliberately route yourself through
jjgreen 6 hours ago|||
The City is not central London, horrible place, dead at the weekend. (Shudder)
radu_floricica 8 hours ago|||
On the other hand, when I visit Venice - which is as tight a city as can be, small streets with stone in every direction except the sky - they somehow manage to drop trees in stone squares.

Same shock, different direction, much nicer.

mickeyp 10 hours ago|||
What? London is one of the greenest cities in the world.
drawfloat 8 hours ago|||
City of London != London, the city

The City is indeed pretty non green

luuundonjk 10 hours ago||||
I'm talking about trees on sidewalks and streets, not about parks.
pm215 10 hours ago||
The city government tracks data on public realm trees, and has a nice map based visualization of it: https://www.london.gov.uk/programmes-and-strategies/environm... and if you zoom in you'll see that many of these are streetside trees.

Personally I have always felt that most Japanese cities are very devoid of urban greenery compared to UK towns and cities.

ndsipa_pomu 9 hours ago|||
It technically counts as a forest
TimByte 8 hours ago||
[flagged]
Kyselica 15 minutes ago||
If you need help finding trees near you, you can check TreeFinder.net.
Vivtek 1 hour ago||
I live in a rain forest, so this post confused me for a minute. I was expecting some kind of on-screen optical illusion, but it turned to be asking about actual physical trees outside my window.

Yeah, I can see trees. I can see about fifty trees without standing up from my desk. I cut down more than three trees a month, probably. The weirdest ones are yagrumo - in about five years they can be fifty feet tall and the wood is so soft you can cut them down with a butter knife, just about. Before moving here, I'd never really considered that the Venn circles of "tree" and "weed" can overlap.

anal_reactor 43 minutes ago|
What do you think of life there in general? Do you think it's a reasonable idea, or one of those things that sound great on paper but then turns out only very specific types of people will actually enjoy it.
ChrisMarshallNY 3 hours ago||
Christopher Alexander has a pattern: Light From Two Sides[0], that is similar.

[0] https://www.patternlanguage.com/apl/aplsample/apl159/apl159....

uberex 9 hours ago|
No because I planted a tree very close to the window, blocking view of other trees.
kkarpkkarp 8 hours ago||
So somehow it confirms not seeing three threes is an indicator of the wrong plant coverage ;)
red75prime 7 hours ago||
I was in the same situation (I didn't plant the tree though), but just a week ago they cut it down (planned tree removals). Now I can see 20 trees.
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