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Posted by nemoniac 5 hours ago

Has W Social switched to closed source?(blog.elenarossini.com)
135 points | 85 comments
pocksuppet 5 hours ago|
W Social felt extremely shady since their first advertisement on HN.

Also, for all their talk about human verification, I have 6 accounts under different names :)

sparkling 4 hours ago||
Super shady.

The german public broadcaster gave them a 5 minute feature on yesterdays evening news, that felt more like a paid ad than journalism. The report made it sound like it is some kind of semi-official EU-endorsed project, but its just... a closed source, for-profit social network? I guess the folks behind it are just well connected in Brussels.

Thank you but no thank you.

mortarion 3 hours ago|||
The company is "W Social AB", meaning "aktiebolag" which in Swedish is what you in the USA would call an LLC or "joint stock company.

So they are 100% looking to monetize and turn a profit.

I wouldn't call it shady, but closed source, for-profit sounds accurate.

technothrasher 50 minutes ago|||
> what you in the USA would call an LLC

"Inc" is probably closer than "LLC". While an LLC is a type of joint stock company, it is a specific form with a pass-through tax structure and restrictions on foreign ownership. "Inc" signifies the more general form of corporation in the US.

TazeTSchnitzel 2 hours ago||||
Aktiebolag is the overwhelmingly most common company form in Sweden and similar to common corporation forms in many other countries. It's not the same thing as a US LLC, which is a strange entity that has pass-through taxation.

Which is to say, there's nothing particularly remarkable about it being an Aktiebolag. It would be more remarkable if it wasn't.

rvba 2 hours ago|||
You can have an "open" non profit, that is actually closed and is working to turn into a for profit...

so those distinctions dont seem to count much nowadays

KPGv2 14 minutes ago||
Where is this possible? In the US, it is impossible. Non-profit's do not have owners, so they cannot be sold or changed to for-profit ones, so there are only two ways for a non-profit to "turn into" a for-profit:

* sell non-profit's assets to a for-profit company (so it's not turning into a for-profit company, and ownership of the non-profit can never be sold since it's not owned by anyone that can approve the sale, there are no shares, etc.) This is only legal if sold at fair market value. So the for-profit can't just take the IP, equipment, land, etc. It has to buy it at what anyone else would buy it at. It also has to be approved of by the state's government. Then the proceeds of the sale have to be transferred to another non-profit.

* form a for-profit subsidiary, which is still controlled by the non-profit. And the for-profit is owned by the non-profit, so the profits flow upward to the non-profit to be used to support the non-profit's agenda.

Either way, the non-profit cannot become a for-profit, and it takes corporate governance shenanigans (like the bullshit happening with OpenAI) to even approximate this. Essentially, it requires corruption and a non-profit board that is unaccountable to its stakeholders.

tannhaeuser 3 hours ago||||
Indeed a very odd sight between WC matches. I don't normally watch much TV, but I think this warrants further investigation and inquiry.

No mention of long-term stake of EU in ActivityPub platforms either, as if W would be our savior.

okr 3 hours ago|||
And probably stuffed with tax money. As usual.
darig 4 hours ago||
[dead]
xg15 4 hours ago||
> Europe already has an ATproto social network - Eurosky - run by a non-profit foundation - Modal - that is building everything in the open, with full transparency, sharing all the steps in their development roadmap:

And weirdly, there was never a peep about this in the press - while the W Social launch was on national news and a bunch of high-profile EU politicians immediately joined. What's going on here?

RobotToaster 2 hours ago||
Mastodon is also European
maelito 4 hours ago||
It means that marketers won over technical, factual people.
oytis 3 hours ago|||
Not marketers, lobbyists
pocksuppet 1 hour ago|||
Probably marketers in this one. Marketers who know how to access politicians adn get invited to WEF.

The distinction: marketers know how to trick people, lobbyists bribe them.

oytis 1 hour ago||
That's not lobbyism, that's straight corruption. Lobbyism is, at least in theory, about convincing politicians
pocksuppet 34 minutes ago||
In practice it's about bribing them or at least telling them personal gains. Like if you tell a politician he should support the war on Iran because he owns lots of oil stocks and they'll go up.

Marketing is telling a politician this app is the future of EU social chat so you need to be using it.

rapnie 2 hours ago|||
Both? But yea, if you see the Advisory Board shown in an image lower in the article, you get the general idea.
oytis 2 hours ago||
Obama making an account on Twitter is a marketers' success. Twitter became popular first, politicians wanted to appear there second.

WSocial just went to politicians directly,it's not known by general public. Good news is, it rarely helps with commercial success

xg15 3 hours ago|||
The marketers or the so far unnamed private investors.
tao_oat 5 hours ago||
I thought this was a good post on the topic: [W Social is TruthSocial with a European accent.][1]

[^1]: https://wecanjustdothings.leaflet.pub/3mokohkfb4224

mortarion 3 hours ago||
The guy who runs W Social, whilst he has a software developer background, has worked most of his time in the financial world. W social is also an LLC. It's a corporation with shares looking to make a profit somehow. No doubt there will be ads on there, and paid features.

I don't see how this will ever become a success, not because it's going closed source (people here don't care), or because it might have paid features (people here don't care) in the future, or even ands (people here don't care), but because of the name. Who the hell thought "W Social" was a good name for a company?

We are so bad at company names here in the EU it's embarrassing.

sajithdilshan 20 minutes ago||
I think they just choose W, because it's the letter before X (former twitter). Apart from the EU leaders and politicians stroking each other egos, I hardly think anyone would be there and it would die out in few years.
malmz 1 hour ago|||
W Social is a Swedish company and therefore not an LLC. It is an Aktiebolag (AB), it is closer to a Corporation (Inc). Still for profit but not necessarily evil, just the most common business type in Sweden.
RobotToaster 3 hours ago||
Maybe they just chose the letter before X?
georgemcbay 2 hours ago||
This thread is the first time I've even heard of "W Social" so I have no specific insight into their naming, but I'd assume it comes from (gaming/lifestyle) streaming culture where "chatters" will often say "W <thing>" (good, win) or "L <thing>" (bad, lose) as short-form feedback on how they feel about <thing>.
tao_oat 1 hour ago||
This would make sense but seems unlikely to me, because the people involved come across as incredibly offline.
CM30 44 minutes ago||
Not sure if the backlash got to them or they got word of potential legal issues caused by doing this, but I can see their GitHub page and its associated repositories just fine now:

https://github.com/w-social-eu

But I do kinda wonder the legality of this sort of move anyway. If other people contributed code and didn't agree to some terms of service saying their work would become the property of the project owner, would it even be legal to make it closed source under a different license?

xg15 3 hours ago||
Looking at the people who immediately joined and this being presented at WEF, this looks less like an EU BlueSky or X and more like an EU Truth Social - i.e. the core users seem to be EU politicians who don't want to depend on a platform owned by their political opponents for reach and so want to have their own platform.
bborud 2 hours ago|
It isn't so much about platform owned by political opponents as platforms now being political and/or that we always have to assume they come with a political agenda.
maelito 4 hours ago||
Just use https://mu.social, it's essentially the same thing, just built in the open by the Eurosky stack.
threecheese 2 hours ago||
“There have been so many red flags with W Social since its hastily cobbled-together *announcement at Davos*”

I think that last bit explains why European govt orgs have migrated to it, over the open source Eurosky.

BigTuna 5 hours ago||
An unfortunate step backwards. I'm cheering for Eurosky and open networks.
Imustaskforhelp 4 hours ago|
Eurosky actually looks like a promising alternative (speaking as non-european) but the AT protocol should have more open friendly competition than just the flagship instance of bluesky. Eurosky seems interesting as well.
danabramov 2 hours ago|||
Note that “instance” is Mastodon-brained and is a wrong way to think about atproto. The correct parallel is RSS / Google Reader.

Atproto has two types of things: hosting and apps.

- Hosting is like RSS. You can host your data on your own server and broadcast from it. It’s just an open source Docker container.

- Apps are like Google Reader. They aggregate from all hosts and usually build an index so they can show a rich view over the network. That’s what Bluesky, Leaflet, Tangled, etc, so.

So there is no “instance”. There’s hosting and there’s apps.

BigTuna 2 hours ago|||
In addition to Eurosky there's also Blacksky, Northsky, and Anisota. Plus dozens of other non-microblogging apps. AT is growing pretty quickly now.
advisedwang 1 hour ago|
EU bigwigs don't care about Open Source. They care about EU data sovereignty and supporting EU businesses (well the appearance of doing so, anyway).
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