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Posted by karakoram 3 days ago

Epidurals are a miracle technology(worksinprogress.co)
83 points | 81 commentspage 2
Findecanor 15 hours ago|
I've woken up from surgery with an epidural that had a leak. That wasn't fun.

It made it emotionally difficult to get surgery again.

nikolay 12 hours ago||
... Except when they injure your spine, like with one of my friends. I'm not sure why women choose painless childbirth, which is not only potentially bad for them, but for their newborns as well. My wife gave birth to 3 children, two in the US, and doctors were shocked she didn't want them. Yes, it hurts. The moment your child is born, all pain is gone, and you're in the most beautiful state ever, and this creates even a stronger bond, knowing what you had to go through to bring a child to life! Men, women - we're all weaklings today. When I think about our ancestors and the sword-and-spear bloodbath battles they fought in to protect their families, we don't have such men and women anymore! Pain is an essential part of life. Chronic pain is a different story, of course.
biggc 11 hours ago||
Suffering is not a virtue
nikolay 11 hours ago||
It surely is. Ascetism and stoicism are extinct virtues, maybe venerated only in Eastern Orthodox Christianity. Many of our holy fathers have suffered terrible torture and death, but they even welcomed it. That's why Orthodoxy is so hard to grasp in the West, where people damage their livers just to tame their headache a bit, let's say.
chrismorgan 10 hours ago||
It’s funny, because Paul criticised such thought in Colossians 2:23:

> These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting rigour of devotion and self-abasement and severity to the body, but they are of no value in checking the indulgence of the flesh.

Meaning: sure, looks good, but doesn’t actually help if the suffering itself is your goal.

(Notwithstanding this, Acts 5:41. A lot, in such topics, depends on exactly how you present things.)

wl 11 hours ago||
There's a lot of people out there who blame their epidurals for lower back pain and the like, but the evidence for causality is not there.
readthenotes1 11 hours ago||
Epidurals apparently also reduce the likelihood of birthgasm
CapitalistCartr 13 hours ago||
[flagged]
realmen384949 16 hours ago||
[flagged]
kshahkshah 13 hours ago|
HARD disagree. Watch “the business of being born”. We’ve turned a fairly routine extremely biologically conserved process into this insanely traumatic experience.
KaiserPro 12 hours ago||
Husband of a UK doctor here.

first, childbirth is fucking dangerous. Its also unnecessarily painful. In terms of risk[1], the epidural is not the thing thats going to cause "morbidity", its the baby coming out breech or massive internal bleeding.

A non insignificant number of women literally tear themselves a new arsehole when delivering a baby. Yes elective caesarians can carry higher risks, but also might be required to actually deliver a live baby, or save the mother.

THe problem for the statisics is that there is a difference between elective caesarians and emergency once. If you group them together, then you're going to get a higher mortality/morbidity rate, because there’s a reason why it was an emergency

Personally I have no fucking clue why people wouldn't want an epidural. My wife didn't want one the second time because "she wanted to get home quicker" (by a fucking day) it turns out by her own words: "it was way way more painful without the epidural" bear in mind shes a fucking doctor, and a paediatric one at that.

[1] Women of African origin in the UK have worse outcomes in child birth, partly because of the lower uptake in pain relief.

EliRivers 12 hours ago|||
extremely biologically conserved process

This seems just plain wrong. It is not at all extremely biologically conserved.

Pregnancy and birth varies wildly across species. Not conserved. For primates, it's got problems; in humans, pregnancy is an absolute mess. The birth itself is historically one of the most dangerous things a woman can do, and remains not exactly a walk in the park even with the best of modern interventions.

Terr_ 47 minutes ago||
Plus even if it were conserved--in the sense that all our relatives have settled on the same winning-strategy with little variation--there's still a naturalistic fallacy waiting in there.

Does the popularity of cancers as one ages mean we should just let people die because Nature Always Knows Best?

InsideOutSanta 13 hours ago|||
I rather think the problem is that births are inherently traumatic (a whole-ass little human coming out of your crotch isn't exactly all fun and games; there's a reason similar imagery is a common trope in horror movies), and we haven't put nearly enough effort into making them less so.
pjerem 13 hours ago|||
I'm 99% sure you are a men.
BrandoElFollito 13 hours ago|||
Birth in humans is not a "extremely biologically conserved process". Women bodies are not ready for the size of head of the baby.

Compare this to cows or horses - where the baby is of sizeable size, but goes statistically smoothly.

jamesboehmer 13 hours ago||
Why don't you go ahead and give birth then, tell us all about your experience.