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Posted by ColinWright 5 days ago

Pondering routing more of my traffic via nodes outside the UK(neilzone.co.uk)
70 points | 83 comments
h4kunamata 23 hours ago|
Australia isn't different, but homelab is my jam so solutions were implemented :)

1. Nginx Proxmox LXC container with domains that require digital ID such as X. I can easily add or remove domains to it via Ansible.

2. Mullvad VPN server/client setup on OPNSense

3. OPNSense Firewall rules with aliases from the local lists from step 1

4. Every time I access X or whatever, OPNSense firewall rule redirects that traffic via the Mullvad VPN Gateway bypassing the digital ID enforcement

5. I host Pihole + Unbound recursive DNS so I have full control over my DNS. Recursive DNS uses the 13 root nameserver, I do not use public DNS such as Google or whatever, in fact, they are all blocked.

My data under my control.

HDBaseT 23 hours ago||
>I do not use public DNS such as Google or whatever, in fact, they are all blocked.

Honestly surprised that works given Google loves to hardcode DNS queries using their DNS Resolver into many things (Google TV, Android, etc).

I'm assuming you are using NAT Redirection (Port 53), blocking DNS over TLS - DoT (TCP Port 853), using SNI FIltering to block DNS Over HTTP (DoH). Not sure how you handle Encrypted Client Hello.

h4kunamata 19 hours ago||
>Honestly surprised that works given Google loves to hardcode DNS queries using their DNS Resolver into many things (Google TV, Android, etc).

My Samsung smartTV has Google DNS hardcoded in it, that is why I do what I do.

No matter if I set my phone DNS to Google, OPNSense NAT redirects any DNS to Piholes only, and since public DNS, DNS-over-TLS and DNS-over-HTTPS are blocked, only Piholes forward it to Unbound. Only Unbound can request DNS and OPNSense enforces that.

Unbound is recursive DNS with is own caching so everything happens localy, surfing the internet is insane fast.

As for the digital ID, the DNS happens locally but the traffic is forward to Mullvad VPN Gateway.

I don't wanna hide my traffic, I just don't wanna this mass survilance on my personal information. My social media accounts are burner, no real name, no photos, minimal apps installed on my GrapheneOS phone and I have a complete normal digital life without sharing my shit haha

ralferoo 16 hours ago||
> ..., DNS-over-HTTPS are blocked

Not trying to be facetious, but how do you know you are blocking them all? I thought one of the reasons for using DNS-over-HTTPS was to be able to avoid detection.

h4kunamata 23 hours ago||
Side note, I do agree with under 16 being denied access to social media.

Spend 5 minutes on X, Instagram or even worse Snapchat for you to see what these minors are doing. A lot generation, all for likes.

GenZ is so cooked, by the time they reach their 30s, damn.

Gen Alpha being born within the digital and AI world is even more cooked.

Chu4eeno 18 hours ago||
I don't think social media is any healthier just because people are older, I'd rather just ban them outright.

And from what I remember of the coverage of the scientists presenting their case in the UK there wasn't enough evidence to say whether it had an impact on children.

Personally I think ipad as babysitter is more to blame, but until the proper studies are done it's all just speculation.

h4kunamata 17 hours ago||
>Personally I think ipad as babysitter is more to blame, but until the proper studies are done it's all just speculation.

Proper study??

Look around us, kids are talking to ChatGPT instead of running, playing, instead of being kids.

Kids cannot speak and yet have a tablet to interact with, by adulthood those kids are cooked.

Teens at school can't read, they have been using ChatGPT to cheat exams. If somebody tells me that more study is required to prove what is right there in from of our eyes, that somebody is part of the problem, full stop!!

benj111 15 hours ago||
>Look around us, kids are talking to ChatGPT instead of running, playing, instead of being kids

Isn't that a symptom of other things? I'm an elder 'millenial' playing out was already decreasing when all we had was a nes and 4 channels on TV.

Unfortunately now we have to 'protect' kids from the dangers outside. Which necessarily means them spending time inside.

fennecfoxy 8 hours ago||
Millennials never spent like >6-8 hours a day on phones doing nothing productive.

Yes, as adults we now spend loads of time in our places of work on devices but generally in the pursuits of doing productive things.

And while I haven't looked up the stats, I don't feel like it's exceedingly more dangerous for kids to play outside today than it was back in the 00's, 90's, 90's etc. I just feel as though we're more aware of the dangers of what _could_ happen to kids - all of which is a facet of the media/social media pressure and scaremongering.

Plus there are still loads of feral kids allowed to roam around and be little shits anyway.

globular-toast 4 days ago||
I'm considering the same thing. I've done the "contact your MP" thing, but it's a waste of time. You just receive a pre-written letter from some minimum wage assistant (or maybe just a bot).

It's either that or I just consider the internet dead and move on. It's nothing like it was 20 years ago anyway. There are other things to do. Many books to read and places to go. We had something really cool and we were lucky to experience it while it lasted, but it's gone now.

cedws 3 days ago||
It’s hard to feel any enthusiasm for democracy watching things you disagree with being pushed through and having no power to stop it. I signed the petition to reverse the OSA and all we got was a canned response.

I’ve come to the conclusion the only thing you can really do is leave when you disagree with the direction of your country, but of course not everyone has the ability to do that.

marcus_holmes 22 hours ago|||
This is what protest is for/about.

If enough people feel strongly about it to go onto the street and wave placards, that starts getting noticed and has to be acknowledged.

Of course, the UK (and others) have started making protests illegal, because they are doing things that we should feel strongly enough about to go and wave placards at them.

leoedin 10 hours ago||
The problem I've found is that enough people don't feel strongly about it.

I've had plenty of conversations recently where people say "yeah, but social media is harming kids. Banning it is good". People broadly see the headline "think of the children" and think, "yup, let's protect children".

To me, there's all sorts of downsides - the death of small discussion forums, pushing interesting online experiences out of the reach of teenagers, the creeping surveillance and, worst of all, the complete end of the open internet (when inevitably it doesn't actually work). But most non-tech people just don't see that.

The currently in place age verificaton system is a joke. It's trivial to circumvent them - not just via VPN, but also because there's countless websites that just don't care. The social media ban will bring more of the same - and then they'll have to ban VPNs and bring in website firewalls.

Who wins? The established tech companies, who have big enough legal departments to comply with increasing red tape. How is a new social network going to legitimately compete with Facebook now?

But when I say all this to people I know, they just don't see it. Most people are not tech people.

nozzlegear 1 day ago||||
> It’s hard to feel any enthusiasm for democracy watching things you disagree with being pushed through and having no power to stop it.

That often is democracy: what's popular isn't always what's best.

zugi 22 hours ago|||
That's why democracy shouldn't be worshipped as the end-all be-all key to good government or good society. Or as Churchill put it, democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.

Freedom and liberty should be the foundations of a healthy society. Democracy should be reserved only for those things that must be decided collectively and universally enforced.

What kids do on their phones doesn't even come close. Let parents and vendors decide what their kids and customers can do. I've met plenty of well-adjusted kids who aren't on social media because their parents don't let them.

lokar 22 hours ago|||
I find that many comments on this subject here don’t seem to consider that a majority (perhaps a large majority) of citizens in their nation support these policies
marcus_holmes 22 hours ago||
Because they don't understand the technology or the consequences.

When they do, they will change their mind (and probably protest loudly that they never wanted it in the first place).

See Brexit for a clear example.

lokar 21 hours ago||
But the argument I see is that the politicians are acting tyrannically against the desire of the voters.
marcus_holmes 16 hours ago||
some voters. The voters who actually understand the technology and the consequences
pjc50 14 hours ago|||
I do think people should consider trying a bit harder to change the opinions of their fellow citizens. Yes, this is a lot of work; yes, I've mostly delegated this myself by paying money to the Open Rights Group. But if you start from the position that everyone else is a newspaper-brainwashed idiot then of course it's going to look a bit dark.

I also think there's more of what I'd call "grassroots British libertarianism" than you'd expect. It's just in tension with Daily Mail-ism, often in the same people. They just don't want onerous rules applied to them.

matthewmorgan 12 hours ago||
Do you ever spend time thinking about your own opinions, or just other people's?
pjc50 12 hours ago||
?
echelon_musk 4 days ago|||
> consider the internet dead and move on. It's nothing like it was 20 years ago anyway. There are other things to do. Many books to read and places to go. We had something really cool and we were lucky to experience it while it lasted, but it's gone now.

I'm pretty much at this stage too. The web/internet was a frontier like the Wild West. But those wild days are gone and are never coming back. Cyberspace has been settled.

gizajob 1 day ago||
The web is only a minuscule part of cyberspace. Once millions of people have an AI supercomputer running a graphical node at home in 3-10 years time, then cyberspace will finally start IMO. The web will look like a catalogue file in comparison.
mplewis 1 day ago|||
don't be a crank
gizajob 1 day ago||
Useful feedback thanks.
farnsworthfusor 23 hours ago|||
What will it do?
andai 22 hours ago||
Full range. Full motion!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkpcYv9Qm5w

verzali 4 days ago|||
Depends on your MP. I have received surprisingly detailed responses to some of my past letters.

If they can't be arsed to answer you, then you shouldn't be arsed to vote for them, at least in my opinion.

benj111 15 hours ago||
Yes definitely. I had one MP for 4 years that would personally reply at all hours. I was getting replies at 10pm. I felt the need to tell him off and turn his phone off. But the other 2 I've interacted with were useless.
HDBaseT 23 hours ago|||
>Many books to read and places to go

You cannot travel into the US without providing access to your Social Media accounts. Pretty likely you get denied if you say "I don't have social media".

bargainbin 23 hours ago|||
Incorrect, I don't have social media and tell them as such, it's never an issue.
lokar 22 hours ago||
Are they asking? I know they said they would, it I’ve not seen reports of it happening
account42 11 hours ago||
They have been asking for well over a year at least for ESTA with GitHub being one possible pre-defined social media type in the form.
Chu4eeno 18 hours ago|||
Good thing I left my abandoned facebook/twitter/instagram accounts undeleted a decade ago.
TacticalCoder 1 day ago||
> We had something really cool and we were lucky to experience it while it lasted, but it's gone now.

You can also recreate a smaller network and enjoy it as a silo, disconnected from the Internet, at times.

There's no need to be off the grid 24/7 to feel the relief.

It's deeply relaxing to pull the (Internet) plug (I do, literally, physically remove one ethernet cable from a switch right underneath my monitor and I've then got several machines happily communicating only on the LAN: no more Internet).

Maybe I'm having fun with my latest acquisition: modelling parts to fix stuff left and right around the house by 3D printing them (I bought a 3D printer for that: I had many things I needed to fix and I knew I'd be able to fix them properly by printing adequate parts). No need for the Internet to model, slice and 3D print.

Such an activity does feel like the computing of yore: it takes me back to a time when it was me and a 8-bit machine. Creating stuff "by code" (which now take physical form at home, which 11-years old me would have find utterly mindboggling btw).

> There are other things to do. Many books to read and places to go.

And hobbies. As a kid from the eighties I love cars from the late 80s/very early 90s: not much electronics, not spying on you. Sure they're a bit of gaz guzzlers but then half the fun is fixing stuff on them and the other half is talking about them with other enthusiasts: there's no need to drive 10 000 kilometers a year with those.

When you take time to disconnect a bit from the Internet, then I'd say when you're online (like I'm now) it all feels way more tolerable.

No need to go full luddite IMO but YMMV.

bigiain 23 hours ago||
> It's deeply relaxing to pull the (Internet) plug (I do, literally, physically remove one ethernet cable from a switch right underneath my monitor and I've then got several machines happily communicating only on the LAN: no more Internet).

> Maybe I'm having fun with my latest acquisition: modelling parts to fix stuff left and right around the house by 3D printing them

Isn't California proposing to put you in jail for having a 3D printer without an internet connection to tattle on you and killswitch your printer if some unaccountable internet service decides you're printing something "bad"?

:sigh:

Retr0id 1 day ago||
I've set up a socks5 "proxy multiplexer" that routes requests to different upstream proxies based on the request hostname. For example reddit routes via a VPS in Dublin, and imgur routes via Tor. I believe socks5 is the ideal layer to do the multiplexing at, for web traffic, because the request hostnames are visible to the multiplexer even if ECH/ESNI is in use. It was a oneshot vibecoded solution but it's been pretty solid thus far, so maybe I should open-source it.

I wrap the outbound sock5 traffic in mTLS, so it should look "normal" to anyone packet sniffing (not obvious proxy/VPN traffic), even though stealthiness isn't part of the threat model at the moment.

bigiain 23 hours ago||
Perhaps consider putting it in public domain instead of using an "open source" license?

There's a decent legal ethical argument that LLM output isn't copyrightable, and for me a "one shot vibe code" definitely _isn't_ "your creative work", so the copyright that open source licenses rely on probably doesn't exist there.

I wonder if a new category of "non copyrighted shared source code" needs to exist for people who use Gan AUI to create genuinely useful software which would ne a net positive to society if shared, but that doesn't risk murkying the waters and undermining the copyright basis that licenses like GPL and Apache and BSD and MIT rely on?

Retr0id 22 hours ago|||
I don't believe in copyright, personally.
bigiain 21 hours ago||
Whether you believe that copyright _should_ exist is quite different from whether it _actually_ exists and whether there are consequences due to the existence of copyright.

All "open source" licenses rely on copyright. If copyright did not exist, GPL and BSD and MIT (and all the other software license options, open and commercial) would be unenforceable.

(I'm less convinced that you seem to be about whether there arte any good reasons for copyright. I believe real "creative people" like authors and musicians and artists and film makers _should_ have a legally enforceable monopoly to control use of and to generate income from their creative work. That shouldn't be "Micky Mouse" effectively eternal control, but there should in my opinion be some legally protected "ownership" that a creator has where they can prevent other people copying/recreating/misusing/profiting from their creation. Whether this should ever have applied to softwares something for a more nuances discussion t6hat a website comment section...)

farnsworthfusor 23 hours ago|||
If LLM output isn't copyrightable then it's already public domain, even if you say it isn't - if this is true you can just ignore the wishes of the person who thinks they're the copyright holder.
marcus_holmes 22 hours ago||
this. The whole licensing of software stands on copyright. If the content is already in the public domain because it was generated by an LLM (copyright only protects human works) then it can't be licensed.

However, there's no compunction to publish the generated code, even if it's public domain.

We end up in a strange nega-OSS world where all code can be used by anyone for any reason, if you can get your hands on it.

PeterStuer 19 hours ago||
If you believe this, then this was always the case. LLM's only made it cheaper and more accesible.
marcus_holmes 16 hours ago||
Sorry I don't understand, what am I believing that has always been the case?
PeterStuer 13 hours ago||
That you could reimplement a software and then be license free. Or did I read you wrong?
marcus_holmes 12 hours ago|||
That's a separate thing. I mean, valid, and a good point to raise, but I wasn't raising it.

I was more talking about the weird space we're getting into where code is completely open, because it was generated and cannot have any copyright protection, but also unpublished, and so effectively proprietary. The opposite of OSS, where code is available but protected by copyright-based licenses.

farnsworthfusor 5 hours ago|||
That's true. You can write software that duplicates the functionality of existing software and by doing that you can evade the copyright of that software.
lmz 22 hours ago|||
For browser traffic another alternative is proxy autoconfig scripts to put the proxy routing logic in JS.
BLKNSLVR 1 day ago||
Please do open source it, I'd be interested in running something similar.
cpressland 4 days ago||
I’m already using policy based routing on UniFi to send OSA censored websites, imgur for example, via Mullvad VPN - it works for the most part, but for any IPv6 websites it completely breaks as UniFi doesn’t support policy based routes for IPv6.

If the government blocks Mullvad then I’ll just switch to Wireguard on a Helsinki based VPS via Hetzner.

bigiain 23 hours ago||
Surely it won't be long before every hyper scalar and even medium sized hosting companies ip address ranges will end up in the block lists for every "questionable" website that is feeling the "chilling effects" from these UK laws?

I used to run my own mail server back until about 2014 or 2015, end even then it was practically impossible to reliably send mail to any of the major email providers from and ip address from Linda/AWS/Hetzner/DigitalOcean et al. I'm pretty sure porn sites and unmoderated web forum type thing that have lawyers advising them will soon be blocking not just UK ip addresses, but the bulk of the easy to identify VPN services and VPS providers.

matt-p 1 day ago||
are you manually maintaining the list of 'OSA censored' sites? Sounds great, just I'm lazy :')
nemoniac 4 days ago||
“The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.”

-- John Gilmore (probably https://quoteinvestigator.com/2021/07/12/censor/)

globular-toast 4 days ago||
There is no "Net" any more. There probably never was really. The internet protocols were designed for resilience from the start. A key to that is packet-switching over circuit-switching. But this thing we call the "internet" today? This thing where more and more nodes can't even speak directly to each other and nobody even cares (see IPv6)? This thing where 90% of traffic goes to a few large multinationals? It's not that. We have no resistance to censorship.
Chu4eeno 18 hours ago||
The problem is that the world is increasingly transitioning from the Internet to regional internet.

There are companies that have gotten very good at virtual border control while selling stuff to e. g. the chinese and russians that are allegedly in talks with the UK govt.

pSYoniK 14 hours ago||
I have submitted this before, but for those maybe a bit uncomfortable with setting up a VPS to act as an exit node for Wireguard, my article covers most things:

https://psyonik.tech/posts/a-guide-for-wireguard-vpn-setup-w...

For this particular use case, I would probably suggest something like OVH/Scaleway as they have nodes in France so physical distance between UK and "somewhere else" is low which will affect latency. If you're willing to wait longer and go further, I recommend Infomaniak (Switzerland - they have nodes in Geneva I think/Zurich). Hetzner (a crow favorite) hasn't been that good for me while I was in the UK, I was getting dropped packets even after switching a few VPSes, but might've just been something temporary.

nly 4 hours ago||
Been using a VPN on my phone and PC for 20 years. Always use non-UK exit points
CommanderData 4 days ago||
The camp who think VPNs and Tor are a solution to government policies feel like disinformation at times.

VPNs are trivial to ban, the IP space is well known, Wireguard is easily to fingerprint and block.

It will be a cat and mouse game, if the government looses this they'll simply make it illegal to be caught using a VPN including Tor. Which is on the table.

The only way this changes is a less crap party, but almost all including Reform are in favour of more censorship.

Fredkin 3 days ago||
Really?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jul/28/reform-uk-v...

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/reform-pledges-to-scra...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/nigel-farage...

Zia Yusuf : "... criticised sections of the legislation that allow ministers to direct regulator Ofcom to modify its rules setting out how companies can comply with requirements to crack down on illegal or harmful content, saying it was “the sort of thing that I think (Chinese president) Xi Jinping himself would blush at the concept of”."

And the more radical Restore say this:

https://www.restorebritain.org.uk/restore_civil_liberties

Retr0id 1 day ago||
They aren't the solution to bad policy but they are an unfortunately necessary part of regular internet use now.
msephton 1 day ago||
I route a bunch of mine via a proxy server of my own that is hosted outside the EU. This gives me access to Japanese websites and other things.
mschuster91 1 day ago|
> And so, for the first time, I am considering locating something (perhaps a WireGuard node, or a SOCKS proxy, or a recursive DNS server / DNS proxy, or perhaps all of them) somewhere on the Internet outside the UK, so that I can route some traffic through that, as needed, to maintain my access to the web.

Good luck, it will probably impossible as admins fed up with AI scraper bots increasingly choose to outright blanket ban anything not being a residential or business line. There's a reason why there are so many "ethically sourced proxies" aka people installing software on their smart TVs and whatnot that comes with an "monetization SDK" by one of the numerous VPN providers. That's the dirty secret behind a lot of the "bypass youtube/netflix/whatever region lock" VPNs.

farnsworthfusor 23 hours ago|
What's dirty about it?
Chu4eeno 18 hours ago|||
Residential proxies aren't usually used for good.
farnsworthfusor 5 hours ago||
What are they usually used for?
mschuster91 14 hours ago|||
Companies tell their customers (i.e. people who wish to bypass streaming service region restrictions) that they "ethically source IP addresses". The people who provide the IP addresses (i.e. people installing f2p games on their phones or smart TVs that come with the VPN exit gateway SDK) don't know that, because no one reads the T&C.

In the end, both are deceived. The customer thinks there are no ethical issues attached to their VPN provider, the ones whose IP addresses get abused don't even know what's going on.

farnsworthfusor 5 hours ago||
In what way is scraping Amazon prices "abuse" of anything?
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