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Posted by barqawiz 11 hours ago

Google Hits 50% IPv6(blog.apnic.net)
364 points | 350 commentspage 2
Jerry2 5 hours ago|
FTA:

>Individual economies such as India, Viet Nam, and Saudi Arabia exhibit adoption curves that differ markedly from the global average. As the APNIC Labs data shows, this global trend does not necessarily reflect the experience of individual economies.

>APNIC’s own measurement records a 42% worldwide IPv6 capability (Figure 2). That’s a substantial difference, which also needs clarifying."

The nuance is that IPv6 is growing faster in developing countries with poorer economies. I'm guessing this is because building modern IPv6 network from scratch is cheaper & more efficient than acquiring scarce and expensive IPv4 addresses. This is a major advantage for newer providers in growing economies.

So while the Google is showing it at 50%, APNIC's weighted global measurement shows it at 42%.

mmwelt 10 hours ago||
Interesting to see the per-country rates[1]. France is up to 85%, apparently!

[1] https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=per-...

Leonard_of_Q 10 hours ago||
The more mobile traffic, the more IPv6. Have a look at India, it is not as if everyone has a fibre connection running IPv6.
lloeki 9 hours ago|||
Well, France has 99% IPv6 deployment through both mobile and landline these days

https://www.arcep.fr/fileadmin/reprise/observatoire/ipv6/Arc...

(2025, from 2024 data)

Reason that Google isn't seeing more is a) some BigCo v4 holdouts b) happy eyeballs sometimes landing on v4 because their v6 is shitty 6rd or something (e.g Free SAS)

vbernat 7 hours ago|||
6rd will soon get away to get native IPv6 instead. Also, 6rd is what allowed France to lead IPv6 deployment.
BrandoElFollito 9 hours ago|||
You mean that Free's ipv6 is not implemented correctly?
well_ackshually 7 hours ago||
Free has ipv6 enabled on 100% of their customers, and while sometimes their software has a few issues, it's working perfectly fine. People just get pissy because Free refuses to pay for peering with Google for e.g. Youtube, and it feels slower, even more on v6.

The only ISP not putting out v6 widely is SFR, and thankfully they've gone bankrupt and we will be rid of this scourge.

BrandoElFollito 5 hours ago|||
I am on Free (after a few years with Orange because Free could not bother to provide fiber here) but I am considering switching to Bouygues because I pay too much for the connection.

The connection is solid, though - thus my lack of enthusiasm.

inigyou 6 hours ago|||
[dead]
CorrectHorseBat 9 hours ago||||
Here in Belgium it's the other way around. we've had IPv6 for over 10 years for basically all home internet, but mobile is still ipv4 only. Not sure why since it's all the same companies.
Scroll_Swe 9 hours ago||
Mobile and fixed broadband is a separate infra/boxes (virtual).

LTE arch with the PGW handles IP allocation to devices

https://mobilepacketcore.com/lte-4g-network-architecture/

anunay03 9 hours ago||||
I'd however mention, the two biggest ISPs that remain today both have adopted IPv6 on their fiber connections. They're also heavily using CGNAT for IPv4. It makes sense, the volume at which they're working makes dedicated IPv4 very uneconomical.
wongogue 8 hours ago||
Even smaller ISP have done that. But I switched to JioFiber last year and it loses its IPv6 network every week for a few hours. Diagnostics tell me that everything is okay and the customer support just doesn’t understand the problem.
jeroenhd 9 hours ago|||
My home internet has IPv6 but my mobile carrier doesn't. IPv6 on mobile carriers is unfortunately still not universal.
stcg 9 hours ago|||
Anyone know why there is a high frequency signal on top of the long term trend in that graph?

https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=per-...

lemagedurage 9 hours ago|||
People connect through cellphones more on weekends, and cellular has higher IPv6 usage.
AndrewDucker 7 hours ago|||
People connect from home more at the weekends and home ISPs support ipv6 more than offices do.
whatever1 4 hours ago||
The great news is that India is at 75%, otherwise the price pressure for ipv4 addresses would be insane
BadBadJellyBean 11 hours ago||
I wonder if there will ever come a day when IPv6 will provide a better web experience than IPv4.

At the moment pretty much every website is reachable via IPv4 but a lot not via IPv6. Will there be a day when this turns around?

mritzmann 11 hours ago||
> a better web experience than IPv4

That's already the case. IPv6 is often faster because most ISPs these days use cgnat for IPv4.

jck86 10 hours ago|||
In my experience not true in practice cause I have experienced way more issues with the IPv6 endpoints of sites than their IPv4 counterparts.

This becomes noticeable when pipelines on IPv6 connected servers suddenly have random request/post failures to public services. Then either the whole service is temporarily having issues or there are a few bad IPv6 endpoints while all the IPv4 endpoints are fine.

Seemingly this failure mode can go unnoticed for days while the same won't be true for IPv4 due IPv4-only still being the norm for corporate networks. And no, current form of happy eyeballs v2 won't account for this.

Besides bad endpoints it could also be a problem with bgp route advertisements where the IPv6 prefix takes a weird path and ends up being blocked by a CDN at the other side of the ocean. This happens more than you'd think. Obtaining pypi packages was quite a challenge last year for us for a couple of weeks due to this.

Not really a fault of IPv6 technology wise, and in general can be solved client side through retry functionality, but in practice it still can lead to a worse outcome due to lackluster IPv6 adoption.

I used to think ISPs, organisations, admins and users were just being lazy for not implementing IPv6 or turning it off as the first thing to do when network problems happen, but when this far in the rollout such basic things still lead to difficult troubleshooting sessions then perhaps time has come to say something has gone terribly wrong.

It saddens me to say that I totally understand that businesses do not want to pay the price for implementing IPv6 unless absolutely necessary, because until the majority of traffic is IPv6 or even IPv6-only it does not make a lot of sense.

The flipping point is nearer than ever, though I fear it will in the short term lead to even worse stability for both protocols until IPv6 truly becomes the norm, whenever that may be.

throw0101a 8 hours ago|||
> In my experience not true in practice cause I have experienced way more issues with the IPv6 endpoints of sites than their IPv4 counterparts.

If you've ever visited a website from your smartphone (over 4G/5G), your first hop has in all likelihood been over IPv6. If you have visited a website from your phone that only had an A record then you probably went through a CG-NAT box, which added latency.

If you streamed a Youtube video to your phone, or checked Gmail, or Instagram or Facebook, then it was over IPv6.

People (including probably you) use IPv6 everyday, multiple times, without knowing it.

zinekeller 6 hours ago||
Without disputing the added latency of CGNAT, the v6-only peering fights (not just the infamous Cogent-HE dispute but smaller regional ISPs peering only on v4) means that there are indeed cases where v6 is worse than v4 in practice. Again, nothing inherently wrong with v6 itself, but peering disputes means bad latency on v6, which means that protocols relying on TCP (like plain FTP, SFTP and rsync) really takes a hit in transfer speeds.

Also there are cases where the ISP didn't bother even optimizing their routing in v6. I understand that some ISPs in Asia (and especially in Japan, where it shows up on ordinary customers in terms like MAP-E and VNEs) have separate backplanes for v4 and v6 (some are legacy reasons, some are business reasons). Guess which one is being devoted more in practice (hint: not the one being devoted more by IETF).

Edit: I thought this was just in Asia, but apparently this is also the case in an ISP in UK (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48618403)

lxgr 9 hours ago||||
> This becomes noticeable when pipelines on IPv6 connected servers suddenly have random request/post failures to public services. Then either the whole service is temporarily having issues or there are a few bad IPv6 endpoints while all the IPv4 endpoints are fine.

Do you have examples for this? I've never experienced this, and I've been using IPv6 for years.

Also, how can you be sure that the same request to IPv4 would have been fine? Did you actually see consistent failures on v6 and consistent success on v4? Otherwise, if a service has a reasonably low error rate, success on retry is the expected outcome, regardless of the path the retry takes.

jck86 8 hours ago|||
There were indeed consistent failures to specific IPv6 endpoints, clearly identifiable through curl, while all the IPv4 endpoints were ok.

This happened with pypi (IPv6 BGP routing problem caused by a bad route from one of our peers combined with their fastly CDN not reply to us on IPv6 from the other side of the ocean for some weird reason), but also with yum and apt mirrors (seemingly random problems with the IPv6 service or firewall of the remote endpoint), and various other web resources accessed from pipelines.

The solution always was to temporarily block the bad IPv6 endpoint(s) or temporarily completely disabling IPv6 on the server itself or on the squid proxy server for workloads without direct connectivity.

Obviously it also can be the other way around, but in practice it appears to happen less often with IPv4, and if it does things get addressed quickly instead of taking hours or days or weeks.

toast0 7 hours ago||||
Open source download mirrors often have much better targetting for v4 than v6. Just a few days ago, I was downloading installer images to check an issue and adding -4 to the command line reduced the download time significantly.
liveoneggs 7 hours ago|||
I saw HE stop routing to europe over ipv6 for an extended period of time two-ish years ago.
BadBadJellyBean 9 hours ago|||
I have been on a dual stack IPv4 and IPv6 connection for a while now. IPv6 is the preferred protocol. I think I'd have noticed if there were widespread IPv6 issues. It used to be worse, but that was years ago.
BadBadJellyBean 10 hours ago||||
True but not deploying any IPv4 connectivity would be a worse experience than not deploying IPv6.
VorpalWay 9 hours ago||||
I have yet to see any ISP use CGNAT here in Sweden. It seems to be a highly regional problem for some reason. Both on mobile and on broadband I get publicly routable IPv4.
inigyou 9 hours ago|||
That's because Sweden joined the internet relatively early when enough addresses were available. It's like that in most 1st-world countries. Places like Argentina, on the other hand, may have to share 8 IPv4 addresses per city.
VorpalWay 8 hours ago||
That makes sense. However, I also don't get IPv6 on either my broadband or my mobile. So we seem to be far behind there.
fundatus 6 hours ago||||
Wow a publicly routable IPv4 address on a mobile phone? Wouldn't that drain the battery a lot? Or is there some kind of carrier-level firewall still?
Hikikomori 4 hours ago|||
Telia does it for mobile, I think Tele2 and 3 as well? Bahnhof, Bredband2 and other small ones also use it for wired customers, but you can usually get a public if you ask for it.
CrLf 7 hours ago||||
When CGNAT is present, my guess is that's the case. It would be nice to see a study on that; don't know if there is one already.

Users doing speed tests in CGNAT may be seeing numbers that aren't exactly real for a (still) mostly IPv4 Internet.

hdgvhicv 9 hours ago||||
That depends on your isp. Mine certainly doesn’t, and I’ve never had an isp on the U.K. which didn’t give me at least a dynamic ipv4 address to my router.

Infact the only isp I have seen do it is starlink and I have contacts with ISPs in 60 different counties.

inigyou 9 hours ago||
Note that most ISPs are cellphone networks and most end devices are cellphones.
mort96 10 hours ago||||
That fraction of a millisecond doesn't meaningfully translate into a better experience for users.
kalleboo 10 hours ago|||
You're assuming the ISP has dimensioned their CGNAT properly and it's not congested.
Hendrikto 10 hours ago|||
Milliseconds matter for gaming, for example.
commandersaki 8 hours ago|||
We are still talking a fraction of a millisecond, a few hundred microseconds at most. People are blowing out of proportion latency saved with v6, it's negligible at best, or at worst let's not forget IPv6 is two separate island because two tier-1 carriers refuse to peer (Cogent & HE).
hdgvhicv 9 hours ago|||
Vast majority of people gaming are doing it via wifi
commandersaki 8 hours ago|||
Sparing a few hundred microseconds of latency is tangibly a better experience?
vbernat 7 hours ago|||
It already does. With IPv6, you don't go through some CGNAT box, that could misbehave or just break (and since the biggest chunk of content is available through IPv6, this may not be a priority). Also, a shared IPv4 can be banned by various sites if one of the owner misbehaves. This issue is not present with IPv6.

More on this: https://vincent.bernat.ch/en/blog/2024-why-ipv6

telesilla 10 hours ago|||
Faster webrtc establishments and other negotiated connections. CGNAT means more relayed than P2P connections so it should be possible to have more direct traffic for services that want to save that bandwidth.
AndyMcConachie 11 hours ago||
I would expect online video games to be a more important driver.
inigyou 9 hours ago||
and anything P2P. Maybe that would have been a driver 20 years ago, but now everything is expected to be centralised. Our culture has shifted. Remember when people used to host their game servers? If you're under 16, you don't because it was never in your lifetime.
hdgvhicv 9 hours ago|||
I have to open a hole in my firewall to host any service. Nat doesn’t change that.

Unless you want to host multiple minecraft servers on the same port on different servers at home?

Indeed hosting anything at home is such a rare workflow that someone wanting it can choose an isp which gives them the facilities they need.

Unless you don’t live in a competitive market based economy and just have the single government mandated isp aimed at the lowest common denominator, in which case you’ve got far worse problems.

TeMPOraL 8 hours ago|||
Or unless you do live in a competitive market based economy, and have a choice of several ISPs with practically equivalent offering aimed at the lowest common denominator, none of whom supports something niche like "giving you facilities for hosting stuff at home".

If there's one thing market competition does well, is remove any kind of meaningful variety - because supporting a niche offering costs money, and is not worth it unless it nets positive, otherwise it's just a drag that makes you fall behind your competition.

inigyou 9 hours ago|||
The average person finds port forwarding much more confusing than "allow Minecraft y/n"
sznio 8 hours ago|||
it's more like that the IPv6 switchover was so fumbled that we went from fast P2P like with Skype, to shitty, centralized and data-mined Discord.

The internet would be much less centralized if IPv6 happened when it was supposed to.

tgma 3 hours ago||
Is this a failure? Absolutely. The article tries to brush this off, but there is no denying it. Operating without an IPv4 stack is not going to happen with v6.
sherburt3 6 hours ago||
Literally all we had to do was add a byte to IPv4 and we'd be done but noooo we need to overengineer the next protocol and make it as painful as possible to adopt.
bluGill 2 hours ago||
That would be just as hard to switch to and even more complex. If you think ipv6 is over engineered you haven't had to deal with ipv4. (Source routing is a pain)
inigyou 6 hours ago|||
Why one byte? Is that enough bytes? An extra 4 bits each for source and destination? Maxing out at 2^36 addresses? That seems uncomfortably small safety margin.
sherburt3 6 hours ago||
I was saying adding a byte to the address so its a 40 bit address which would be two bytes to the header. Obviously it would still have the same issue where hardware and software would be incompatible and would need to be replaced but the same concepts that worked in IPv4 would work in my fake protocol instead of IPv6 where the network needs to be redesigned from the ground up.

Also IPv6 addresses are ugly

inigyou 6 hours ago||
How sure are you that 40 bits is a good number of bits? What's your justification? It takes over 30 years to deploy new bits, so you have to be really sure before you start that effort.
sherburt3 5 hours ago|||
40 bits would've bought us a lot of time and would've kicked the can down the road several decades. People from the future would be much better equipped to design a new protocol because they understand their needs better.
ralfd 5 hours ago|||
> It takes over 30 years

Only because it is overengineered. Parents pragmatic protocol would have been adopted faster

convolvatron 6 hours ago|||
this keeps coming up, if you add a byte to ipv4 you still have a transition problem. 5 byte machines can't talk to 4 byte machines. pretty much the only thing that solves is people not liking the :: syntax. the only other change is auto configuration, which...kind of doesn't matter? is that really causing problems?
sherburt3 2 hours ago|||
I think the addresses are a big issue. The address space is just stupid big, I don't understand why we need to prepare for every grain of sand on Earth having a WiFi chip in it.

Most people can pick up calculating subnets in their head in ipv4 pretty quickly and ipv4 addresses are easy to memorize on accident. My brain turns to mush as soon as I start seeing hexadecimal characters in addresses.

mahboi 4 hours ago|||
Yeah but they could've picked something that at least lets the 4 byte host talk to a 5 byte one. Like if I have 8.8.8.8 and they want to give me 8.8.8.8.0, cool. Or make it 8 bytes instead of 5, same thing.
convolvatron 3 hours ago||
well, if you want to add an extra byte you kinda have a problem, since v4 is fixed format and is actually cooked into hardware in a lot of places. so if you want to keep v4 mostly untouched you have to use an option, which is going to be pretty slow on the backbone.

you can send a packet from an extended address host to a vanilla v4 host if you map the address space into a range like you suggest..but that v4 host just has no way of sending a message back..so its kinda useless

mahboi 3 hours ago||
It'd be useless until everyone switches to the 5-byte thing and people can start putting something besides 0 into that last byte. But at least they could turn on v5 or whatever it's called without having to think about it. Right now I could have two hosts that both agree to use ipv6 and it's still hard because you have to reconfigure everything.
TacticalCoder 2 hours ago||
> ... but noooo we need to overengineer ...

We need to pretend we overengineer. But some in the committee made it sure data exfil would be basically impossible to detect / block with IPv6, which all the others, always in love with the most rube-goldberg design possibles, loved the "overengineered" solution.

With rube-goldberg designs, you can then always say stuff like:

"The xz backdoor was TOTALLY unrelated to systemd"

Yet it only concerned distro that shipped with systemd.

Go figure.

It's always "because insert-crazy-non-sensical-hair-pulling-reason-here".

Ah yes, it's because of that. So it's so totally unrelated right?

Except it still only affect distro using systemd.

Or maybe, you know, backdoors and exfils were the plan from the very start.

"The protocol won't work correctly unless you let crazy ping packets doing you-know-what". And nobody is ever going to properly firewall all that.

Overengineering is one thing, yes.

But we know for a fact that there are xxxINTs infiltrating committees and pushing "solutions" that are only solutions to them.

birb07 2 hours ago||
Globally, it’s 50%, but local French (>85%) businesses could already go IPv6-only and force others to adopt it
adithyassekhar 7 hours ago||
Whenever I turn on ipv6 on my router (isp supports it, dual stack) randomly I get half the download speeds, YouTube video freezes, and eventually a captcha screen on google. The moment I disable v6 even only at the client side I get to max out my bandwidth. Tested on google drive, sites on azure and aws and netflix’s fast.com which show’s your ip just to confirm I was connecting over v6.
decorner 2 hours ago||
When your router ships with IPv6 default on, this makes sense
tulio_ribeiro 5 hours ago||
Cloudflare shows a 59/41 split: https://radar.cloudflare.com/adoption-and-usage?dateStart=20...

HE shows 41% ASNs support v6: https://ipv6.he.net/

jdw64 10 hours ago|
I made my homepage (www.makonea.com) support IPv6 too, but the number of people actually using it is much smaller than I expected. Is IPv6 really that widely used? I'm supporting both because I heard it's good to support both, but I'm not sure what the actual benefit is. Sometimes, when behind Cloudflare, I think even if someone connects via IPv6, it ends up coming through as IPv4
BadBadJellyBean 10 hours ago||
It's good to support it to resolve the chicken egg problem. If no service supports it, there is no sense in deploying it to the customers and the other way around.

Also you made the life better of people who have DS lite. They only get a public IPv6 and all their IPv4 traffic goes through a CGNAT.

reddalo 10 hours ago|||
For people like me: DS Lite stands for "IPv6 dual-stack lite". My mind went directly to Nintendo and I was confused.
ash 10 hours ago||||
Unfortunately, individual actions would never be enough to solve the IPv6 chicken and egg problem. See djb's "IPv6 mess" article:

https://cr.yp.to/djbdns/ipv6mess.html

Yes, it is old, many examples are outdated, but the main points still hold. Decades later his suggestions for making IPv6 succeed are still not implemented.

tormeh 9 hours ago|||
This stuff is obvious now, but I think back then this was probably quite clever.
BadBadJellyBean 10 hours ago|||
It's not a lot but it's better to be part of the solution than the problem even if it is an insignificant contribution.
commandersaki 7 hours ago||
Which is which?
fc417fc802 10 hours ago|||
For client server web browsing what's the downside of CGNAT? I'd understand if we were talking about self hosting a service from home but for typical consumer usage?
gucci-on-fleek 10 hours ago||
1. Peer-to-peer networking won't usually work correctly. And quite a bit of software uses P2P networking these days---BitTorrent, Zoom/Teams (via WebRTC), Tailscale, PlayStation/Xbox multiplayer, etc. Most of these services have automatic fallbacks when P2P networking doesn't work, but these fallbacks are usually slower and less reliable.

2. Most websites assume that 1 IPv4 address==1 household, so you'll often run into rate limits. Or even worse, you might be blocked entirely if your CGNAT neighbours are spammers or otherwise breaking website rules.

fc417fc802 9 hours ago|||
While true, neither of those are relevant in context (and I even explicitly acknowledged your first bullet in my comment above). It was suggested that a website operator deploying IPv6 would somehow improve the end user experience by virtue of avoiding CGNAT and I was questioning that. I do of course appreciate that going via CGNAT to a clueless operator that eagerly adds IPv4 bans can be problematic but that's more a question of why you as a consumer might want IPv6 connectivity not why a service provider would want to deploy it.
gucci-on-fleek 9 hours ago|||
> While true, neither of those are relevant in context (and I even explicitly acknowledged your first bullet in my comment above).

Yeah, I just mentioned that because P2P networking is used a lot more than most people think these days, since even things like Zoom that look like typical client–server web browsing actually use P2P networking internally.

> It was suggested that a website operator deploying IPv6 would somehow improve the end user experience by virtue of avoiding CGNAT and I was questioning that.

Reliability and latency will be marginally better with IPv6 than with CGNAT, but this is so minor that I doubt that most people will notice this. And many CGNATs will RST connections that last too long, but most protocols have some sort of automatic retry/reconnect built in, so this shouldn't cause issues very often either.

IPv6 addresses are quite a bit cheaper than IPv4 addresses in most clouds, but since most servers still need to support IPv4, this doesn't help you directly. Supporting IPv6 means that others using the cheaper IPv6-only cloud services will be able to connect to your server, but this doesn't matter for consumer-only services.

So yeah, you're probably right that enabling IPv6 server-side won't have (m)any benefits.

> I do of course appreciate that going via CGNAT to a clueless operator that eagerly adds IPv4 bans can be problematic but that's more a question of why you as a consumer might want IPv6 connectivity not why a service provider would want to deploy it.

Being able to ban IP addresses without worrying about collateral damage is a pretty big benefit to the service provider though, for certain applications at least.

inigyou 6 hours ago||
If you're using a cloud you'll probably find it useful to have ipv6 on every server and ipv4 only on the front end gateway
throw0101a 6 hours ago|||
> It was suggested that a website operator deploying IPv6 would somehow improve the end user experience by virtue of avoiding CGNAT and I was questioning that.

Non-legacy, newly formed ISPs have to spend a lot of money on either buying or leasing IPv4 address space, and even then if they grow they probably won't be able to keep up, and so have to deploy 100.64.0.0/10 to the WAN interface of CPEs and then buy a bunch of CG-NAT hardware.

The problems are on not entirely visible at the end-user side of things because of the Herculean efforts by ISPs.

IPv4-only services are thus externalizing the costs of connectivity to ISPs (especially newly formed ones).

fc417fc802 6 hours ago||
> externalizing the costs of connectivity to ISPs

Isn't that literally their raison d'être? Point taken that in aggregate it increases the costs of network operators but still that's got nothing to do with an individual instance of an individual user visiting an individual website.

hdgvhicv 9 hours ago|||
1) my stateful firewall is going to break most of that anyway

2) if cg nat is as popular as people claim then they won’t be doing that as it’s not an edge case

inigyou 6 hours ago|||
P2P protocols don't have much problem opening up a stateful firewall connection as you just have to send one packet out to open a known address and port.

I prefer to run scrapers behind CGNAT because websites can't ban it without causing collateral damage, which matters more to some than to others. The website probably has to put up a captcha. Which hurts its human traffic. Think about how much more traffic you could have if you didn't show everyone a captcha, and you might see that you should also be in favour of IPv6.

throw0101a 6 hours ago||||
> 1) my stateful firewall is going to break most of that anyway

Your CPE is probably running UPnP IGD and/or PCP for hole punching of P2P services, and IGD/PCP can hole punch just as easily for IPv6.

> 2) if cg nat is as popular as people claim then they won’t be doing that as it’s not an edge case

It's not whether CG-NAT is an edge case or not, it's whether there are things that are completely impossible with it or not. Want to play with your friends on your Xbox/PS? Too bad, CG-NAT makes it completely impossible.

Why should we be happy with a technology that makes certain use cases impossible? On what planet is that a good thing?

gucci-on-fleek 8 hours ago|||
> 1) my stateful firewall is going to break most of that anyway

Stateful firewalls and even regular NAT aren't much of an issue for P2P, but CGNAT is much more problematic [0].

> 2) if cg nat is as popular as people claim then they won’t be doing that as it’s not an edge case

You'd hope, but people tend to be pretty slow to update their networking assumptions, so this is still pretty common. And it doesn't help that most CGNAT users tend to be either from poorer, since poorer countries and mobile data providers are far more likely to use CGNAT than legacy North American ISPs.

[0]: https://tailscale.com/blog/how-nat-traversal-works

rescbr 5 hours ago||
> people tend to be pretty slow to update their networking assumptions, so this is still pretty common.

My ISP doesn't do CGNAT in FTTH deployments, but I'm paying extra for a static IPv4 allocation anyway since I was increasingly getting hit with captchas every time my IPv4 rotated to flagged IPs that were trashed by my fellow subscribers with poor infosec practices - i.e. 99.9% of residential subscribers.

Once I got a static allocation, captchas are getting easy to pass.

Hendrikto 10 hours ago|||
> Is IPv6 really that widely used?

Mobile carriers use it almost exclusively, which is already a huge chunk of the internet, and newer ISPs are switching to it too.

> I'm supporting both because I heard it's good to support both, but I'm not sure what the actual benefit is.

The benefit is that you allow IPv4-only and IPv6-only clients to connect.

tormeh 9 hours ago||
I accidentally became the user of an IPv6-only device a while back for some obscure reason I never could figure out. Let me tell you: There are no IPv6-only users. Absolutely nothing except Google, Facebook, and YouTube works. Any website not in the top 20 are IPv4-only. It was so bad I briefly thought I didn't have an internet connection at all. Anyone stuck on an IPv6-only connection would immediately cancel their contract on the grounds that they don't have de-facto internet access.
inigyou 9 hours ago|||
So, like, the three most popular things still worked. I wonder if working more is related to their popularity.
tormeh 6 hours ago||
I think it's more that Google and Meta have the surplus engineering resources to implement IPv6 for what is essentially no reason.
inigyou 6 hours ago||
Probably for lower latency and higher reliability on mobile networks.
hdgvhicv 9 hours ago||||
You can do IPv6 only if you have a 64 nat on your edge and use dns64 and just use a limited set of applications and devices.

Some applications will still fail to work though unless you also have 46 nat on your device which still doesn’t work transparently on majority of types of device.

You also need all devices on your lan to support v6 natively, and v6 only. From your printer to your speaker.

You might be able to do something with mdns and nat64 to get them working on an IPv4 only subnet. But you’re talking layers and layers of complexity for things which just have to work.

I’m posting this from my phone on my IPv6 only subnet, not sure if it’s using a 64 gateway or 6 native to HN, but it’s possible.

Hendrikto 9 hours ago|||
All the more reason to support it. There are lots of ISPs that only assign you an IPv6, and do hacky trickery to make IPv4 work over that. We wouldn’t need all of this.
jon-wood 10 hours ago|||
When hosting a server IPv6 doesn't make a huge difference beyond your logs will probably be a bit more accurate, people behind CGNAT where an ISP has multiple customers sharing a block of IPv4 will show up with their actual IPv6 address. They'll maybe also find it slightly quicker because they're not being funnelled through NAT gateways but realistically not enough to notice.

From the user side IPv6 is great for me. My ISP is using CGNAT and would bill me ten pounds a month for a static IPv4 address but I automatically get a vast block of IPv6. I'm using that block to allow me to VPN back home when out and about, and if I wanted to I could also host services from devices on my home network without needing any NAT nonsense, I can just open access to the relevant device on the router. (Because this is a world where not everywhere supports IPv6 yet if I'm on an IPv4 only network the VPN endpoint is a dedicated server I rent which forwards the relevant port back to my home router over IPv6)

hdgvhicv 8 hours ago|||
So your isp is rinsing you for the cost of a an IPv4 address. £10 a month will pay for a whole /24 in 3 years.

Chances are they also skimping on other areas including over subscription. Choose a better isp if you want a better service.

Your “just open traffic to internal host 1 on your firewall is the same no matter if it has nat or not, unless you are using a non stateful firewall? Or perhaps your configuration layer splits the two for reasons.

jdw64 9 hours ago|||
Thank you for the advice. By any chance, have you worked with Ruby before? I remember seeing your username back when Ruby was popular and I first started learning it in university
nottorp 3 hours ago|||
I recently enabled ipv6 on an unadvertised server i use just with people i know... it's on my home connection actually.

The great news is those vulnerability scans from random IPs are coming just on ipv4, there hasn't been any yet on ipv6 :)

inigyou 6 hours ago|||
A lot of internet spambots and vulnerability scanners are v4 only. I discovered this when I found an open mail relay on v6, contacted the owner and he said it's been like that for ages due to a config mistake and he'd never heard a complaint. It wasn't an open relay on v4.
newsoftheday 5 hours ago||
My selfhosted email has been dual stack for close to a year and my eyeball estimate of the logs is around 10% of the traffic is IPv6.
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