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Posted by advisedwang 1 day ago

Did my old job only exist because of fraud?(david.newgas.net)
786 points | 380 commentspage 4
estetlinus 16 hours ago|
Well, you did good and got paid. It all sounds very serendipitous. Isn’t like 99% of all tech fraud?
xivzgrev 16 hours ago||
This arrangement is bizarre.

The VC business model is predicated on extreme growth. The last thing you would want to do is siphon dividends out vs reinvesting into growth.

They must have preyed on newbie founders, dangling large valuations. Oh the fees? Well you will make it big and it will be a drop in the bucket!

advisedwang 5 hours ago|
I suspect initially the fund was earnestly trying to make some huge exits, and the incubator was really a support for that. But as time went on it looked less and less like a big exit was in the cards. A stream of money to fund a lavish life was right there for the taking, and perhaps it's human nature to shift the priority to keeping the good times going.
bhickey 21 hours ago||
Well that's a blast from the past. When I lived in London I hung out with some of the geniedb team (hey Alaric).
db48x 1 day ago||
Love that second footnote.
hiccuphippo 8 hours ago||
Sounds straight out of The Producers.
blobbers 16 hours ago||
Yes it did, but you are not your job. Your current state may be based on a fraud, but the fraud is not you.
peteforde 20 hours ago||
First, you'll probably never know and this is one of those ouroboros questions that can drive you a little crazy if you let it. I urge you to not let it, because the only actual answer is that if you did work you were proud of and met the mother of your children, it quite literally doesn't matter. We should all be so lucky!

Second, very few things in life are so cut and dry. Legal cases are by nature simplified abstractions that attempt to render a three dimensional situation that unfolded over a long time in a few pages of a graphic novel.

Third, this sort of thing is so incredibly common. Often the only difference between fraud and IPO is whether it worked or not. That's not cynicism, just pragmatism.

If you ever read David Graeber's Bullshit Jobs - and you should - you'll quickly decide that the real fraud is late capitalism writ large.

gwbas1c 9 hours ago||
I lived in Silicon Valley for almost a decade, and stuck my fingers in the startup scene for awhile.

One thing I learned is that a some people running startups are "poker players." They run the company to keep up appearances: Their goal is to get more investment and eventually sell the business at a profit. (And then what the purchaser does is their business.)

There's nothing wrong with working for companies like this! You might not realize it going in; or the investors might see through the bluff and replace the leadership, creating a great job for you.

In contrast, you could join a business run by honest people, and they could sell out to a poker player who then ruins it. Or, more typically, the honest people turn out to be so-so business people and the business fails. (This is what happened when I tried to run a startup.)

At the end of the day, working for a startup always involves risk and the leadership structure will always change as the company grows, pivots, or fails.

phendrenad2 22 hours ago||
In these cases I'm always curious who the investors were. I have the bad feeling it was you and me via our 401ks somehow.
advisedwang 18 hours ago|
In this particular case I believe it was mostly individual accredited investors, putting in anywhere from tens of thousands to millions of dollars. The case has records of the fund trying to get GE in too, but it doesn't look like they succeeded. Some of those individual investors may have been pretty small fry so I do feel a bit bad for them, but on the other hand if you want to dabble in Venture Capital, you need to be savvy.
Apreche 1 day ago|
One of the many reasons to never actually care about the work you are doing if it is a for-profit endeavor, and you are not the owner. You are there to collect a paycheck so you can survive. If you want a job that you should care about then work in public service, at a non-profit, or for yourself.
xg15 1 day ago||
It's a reasonable stance until the point where most of society is ran by for-profit companies. Then that mindset actively makes the world worse.

Your bosses might not actually care about the work you do, but your users and customers sure will.

pdimitar 22 hours ago||
Your proposed solution?
aurareturn 21 hours ago|||
Work hard, do a good job, earn more money for yourself and family, save money, start your own business?

Also, when you do a good job, ex-coworkers will often reach out to you to give you better opportunities.

stevenhuang 21 hours ago|||
You do what you can to do good within the confines of the parameters available to you.
mickael-kerjean 23 hours ago|||
> If you want a job that you should care about then work in public service

I did that in the health sector of my local gov, the whole place was full of consultant who either got contracted directly from Oracle, used to work at Oracle before but moved there or took the Oracle pill early on and never got the idea to see how things get done elsewhere. It was impossible to ship anything that's not made of Oracle technologies and that was not an accident but a deliberate construction.

analog31 23 hours ago|||
Another option is to do work you care about, in a way that doesn't attract the attention of people who might thwart it. I think plenty of socially or personally redeeming work can be done this way, for instance within very large companies. Enough of this work, in fact, that the net outcome for people and society is actually beneficial.
the_cat_kittles 1 day ago|||
basically agree, though if you work for a transparently evil company you should care, and quit
Dusseldorf 23 hours ago||
or stay, and be subtly bad enough at your job to negatively affect the progress of the enterprise.
amelius 13 hours ago|||
However: work is more fun if you care about it.
wbl 22 hours ago||
Do you think people at Merk or Pfizer or Disney don't care about what they work on?
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