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Posted by adunk 6 hours ago

The truth about being a manager(sofiakodar.github.io)
98 points | 61 comments
jkingsbery 5 hours ago|
Mostly agree with this article. When I mentor people about managing, some other bits I also usually mention:

1. 'You’re not “part of the team” anymore.' - You're not part of the software dev team, but if you're doing things right, you're part of a team, just a new one. I encourage manager mentees of mine to read a book "Five Dysfunctions of a Team" which talks about figuring out who your "first team" is. Even in environments where you manage an autonomous team, you likely are working alongside other teams towards some bigger goal. Some of the things that worked being part of a software development team continue to work in the new setting, but you also need a new set of tools.

2. It's a two-way door. I've bounced back and forth between IC and manager roles. Some of it is just how the job market is (you look for a job, there aren't manager jobs, you go back to being an IC). Sometimes, people do it intentionally because they like being an IC. It's ok to try out being a manager, and realizing you don't like it.

A lot of what's here isn't specific to managing, and if you advance in your career as an IC, you'll experience similar.

MarceliusK 5 hours ago||
In a way management should be treated more like a role change than a one-way promotion
jaggederest 5 hours ago|||
The limited amount of true people management I've done has felt like a really valuable educational process, even if I never embrace wearing that hat exclusively.
Esophagus4 4 hours ago|||
Absolutely.

This is the hardest part of the transition to manager: your engineering skills alone won’t make you a manager. It’s a different role.

sam_lowry_ 5 hours ago||
Back in Soviet times there was a trend in Sci-Fi depicting the bright communist future when people changed professions every few years or so, often between manual and intellectual, to stay sharp.
greybcg 4 hours ago||
Interesting parallel I was unaware of. On a personal level I have found it very useful to alternate between mental and physical work for the sake of endurance. If I was mentally tired I could usually still do physical work. This was helpful within the scope of a day or week and I imagine that such alternating also aids longterm endurance.
jawns 5 hours ago||
I think this might scare some people off from management unnecessarily.

A lot of what's being described here is important for new managers to understand, but eventually, once you find your footing, you can start to determine where the rules can bend.

For instance, a lot of new managers struggle because they want to keep a foot in the IC world. I think most new managers would benefit from stepping away from the code for an extended period of time. But many experienced managers do eventually return back to writing code while still serving in a management role, although certainly not at the level they did before.

Likewise, it's really important for new managers to understand that friendship dynamics will change. But that doesn't mean that you can't foster very warm relationships with people who report to you. Just like a teacher-student relationship, you can have great fondness for each other while recognizing that there are some lines that absolutely can't be crossed.

jms703 5 hours ago||
If it scares you off, thats a good thing. A manager who doesn't want to do these things might not be an effective manager. I think its better to go in eyes open to what it really means. I think the author did a good job of that.

I was hoping for more upsides, but, I'm not surprised by the short list either.

gopher_space 4 hours ago||
It's a service-oriented job that attracts people who like to control other people. There are only so many upsides to a situation like that. Here's my favorite take on the subject:

> "Police business is a hell of a problem. It's a good deal like politics. It asks for the highest type of men, and there's nothing in it to attract the highest type of men. So we have to work with what we get—and we get things like this."

- Raymond Chandler The Lady in the Lake

smcg 5 hours ago||
It confirmed that management would be a bad choice for me. If anything I think that the article is going to give people the ability to say "no" if they are on the fence. I don't want to sell. I don't want to politic. I don't want to know about re-orgs before the employees whom it actually affects. I don't want to lay off someone because my team's profits are being siphoned by others. I don't want to carry upper management's BS and tell it to my coworkers with a straight face. And if you do, I hope it keeps you up a little bit at night.
jawns 5 hours ago|||
Those are definitely the down sides. As a manager who has had to let people go, no matter how deserved, it is a part of the job that I wish I didn't have to do, and it does disturb my sleep and peace.

But there are some very meaningful upsides as well, and the one that rises above all the rest is that I genuinely love working with teams and helping them grow.

Based on your list of things you don't want to do, I would say that if you can enjoy the success and stability you wish to have while avoiding all of those things, then more power to you! But keep in mind that in most businesses, _somebody_ has to do those less desirable things, or the business isn't going to stay afloat.

smcg 4 hours ago|||
I've seen people fired that produced 10x+ their salary in value. That certainly isn't desirable, nor is it necessary. In one case it was because a flailing upper manager was trying to find a scapegoat. I don't see ethical people get promoted to upper management. In fact, they seem to weed those people out on purpose.
hypfer 4 hours ago|||
Genuine question:

If it was actually deserved, why does it bother you?

jawns 3 hours ago||
Here's a concrete example. I hired somebody who was really impressive during the interview process, but then soon realized they just didn't have the right skills for the role. He wasn't a bad person. Had a family, and I knew it would be a big disruption for them to have to go through job searching again.

Another case. A guy I managed caused a lot of friction with one particular co-worker, and it came to a head when he he stepped way over the line and veered into personal attacks on a call. Had to let him go, and I was angry with him at the time, but it still pained me to do it and was on my mind for quite some time.

smcg 3 hours ago||
I agree those are two common scenarios where it would be painful. Those two people were not good fits for their roles, so hopefully they found something more appropriate.
Esophagus4 4 hours ago|||
I know three really good engineers who have said the same for exactly those reasons. (eg “I don’t want to choose who gets laid off” etc)

I totally respect that, and the people I know who said that to me are typically very strong and experienced engineers.

jms703 5 hours ago||
This is very accurate. For me personally, I found the difficulties, friction, and stress, have started to eclipse the pros and decided to move back into an IC role after 15 years as EM/SrEM.

The work life balance was also terrible. You really do ruminate and worry about a lot, much of it outside of your control.

argee 5 hours ago|
> You really do ruminate and worry about a lot, much of it outside of your control.

I believe that comes down to temperament, though being on either extreme end of that spectrum leads to problems.

juancn 5 hours ago||
All leadership is like that. Even if you're not a people manager.

I'm an IC in a technical leadership position, all of these hold true with the added constraint that I cannot tell anyone what to do. I hold no carrot or stick.

I have to persuade, convince and influence, I have no reports (nor I want them) so to get anything done I need to get people to align and understand the value on its merits.

Esophagus4 4 hours ago||
The good news is those skills of getting people to believe in you and your thing are critical to leadership as an EM too.

I’m sure we all can think of managers who don’t have those skills but rely on the stick, and those managers are lousy at their job.

Good leadership skills have a lot of overlap between IC and EM.

MarceliusK 5 hours ago||
If people follow your direction, it is usually because the argument made sense, the trust was already there or you did the unglamorous work of aligning everyone beforehand
siliconc0w 4 hours ago||
The reality is that there is no escaping management. A high level IC is pretty much just an unofficial manager. You are responsible for a large technical area - it's your job to meet with stakeholders, design the roadmap, build durable team processes to maintain velocity, mentor and identify the right work for the right people. You may not have back to back meetings but between 1:1s, stakeholders, projects, and ad-hoc fires they're likely still a majority your schedule. You are expected to lead without authority. Leadership will change priorities and reorganize the teams every six months. If you're focused and deliberate, you can maybe get can your project landed before the next reorg.
afc 51 minutes ago|
I went back to a senior IC role after managing for 5 years and I think there are big differences. Yeah, some aspects have to do with leadership (regardless of whether or not you manage) and there's overlap, but... there are also huge differences. I wrote about one I experienced: https://alejo.ch/3g9
robotswantdata 6 hours ago||
Missed the part about 100x the stress and politics for 1.2x the pay.
GlickWick 6 hours ago|
That's pretty much the first bullet point
robotswantdata 5 hours ago||
It doesn’t cover the reality that nearly all your extra pay in a progressive tax system goes to the government. UK is hitting 70% marginal rates , or even 1000% for people with children.
GlickWick 5 hours ago|||
That feels tangential to the article and not super relevant. Whenever you're offered something with more pay it'll be your personal decision whether or not the pay justifies the role change or whatever.

Some would argue going from a regular SWE to a Senior, Lead, or Staff is also not worth the pay depending on how it impacts your life.

svachalek 5 hours ago|||
Dang, where do they pay 2x?
robotswantdata 5 hours ago||
I edited, but in big mega corps could easily be 5x your junior staff.
organsnyder 5 hours ago||
But by the time you're ready to be promoted to manager, you're usually at least senior-level, if not higher. No one is (or should be) getting promoted from junior to manager.
bironran 5 hours ago||
Similar when you climb up the technical path as well, beyond staff engineer. It gets lonely, not many peers, not part of a team, you have to be careful about what you say and to whom as your words carry a lot of significance.
bluGill 5 hours ago|
At staff you are still spending a lot of your time working with people. You are working on technical problems but you should be teaching them how to do it.

If you want to be heads down working on code all day stick to senior engineer.

joshmarlow 5 hours ago||
One of the more counter-intuitive parts of management that I've found is that your focus shifts from delivering a technical outcome to care-taking a team that delivers technical outcomes. It's a meta-function.

A related physics metaphor - in general as you move from IC to SR to management, your focus shifts from changing the position to changing the velocity and acceleration of those around you.

rav 6 hours ago||
There's a note at the end:

> As always, this blog post is written by me, without any AI, so all errors are my own.

However, the illustrations in the post are clearly made by generative AI, are they not?

jms703 5 hours ago||
The author claims the POST is WRITTEN by them. They did not claim the ILLUSTRATIONS were DRAWN by them. Most of us are not artists. Sometimes its hard to find the right illustrations.

But what did you think of the article itself?

red_hare 5 hours ago|||
Why does AI want to stress me with that cup about to fall off the desk
code_biologist 5 hours ago||
My SO is on the spectrum and likes to align cups and things along the edges of tables. I ask her not to be an edgelord in the most egregious cases, but I've also gotten better at not stressing over "it's on the edge".

That cup is still not ok lol.

skybrian 5 hours ago||
Yes, but I don’t read blog posts for the art. As placeholders they’re not terrible.
sivalus 5 hours ago|
I agree with this, but the social dynamic just sucks. I would much rather the manager be part of the team, not feel lonely, be able to joke around about safe things (so, not politics, religion, or identity), and even complain a bit.

>You will not get the training you need

This is just plain unacceptable. It is likely due to companies thinking everyone is replaceable and not investing in their employees though. I don't know how companies can simultaneously want managers to practice the sanitized humanity detailed here while also not providing training to do what they want.

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