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Posted by htrp 7 hours ago

Anthropic says Alibaba illicitly extracted Claude AI model capabilities(www.reuters.com)
50 points | 80 commentspage 2
randomboy3423 2 hours ago|
A partly insider on this.

I think Anthropic is just marketing / bluffing, because they don't even have the data.

They do distill the models, but they don't go to Anthropic, they just use platforms like aws bedrock, there are too many restrictions on Anthropic's own platform.

bilbo0s 26 minutes ago|
>they just use platforms like aws bedrock, there are too many restrictions on Anthropic's own platform

This is actually the only way that what Anthropic is alleging would make any kind of sense. And, as a matter of fact, is exactly what every enterprise does to train models.

This kerfuffle should be interesting to watch.

But, as always, everyone (in the US) should fully download all the Chinese models while you can. I suspect this may be the "Phantom Menace" they use to render illegal our use of Chinese AI tech just as they've rendered illegal our use of Chinese cars. Only difference is, we peasants may need the Chinese AI tech to have any chance of competing with Big Tech in the future.

And even with the Chinese tech, as Big Tech spreads their AI out into more and more niche areas, we'll likely still not be able to build startups that can compete with them.

It's just that without Chinese AI tech, we'll have no chance at all.

awkwabear 2 hours ago||
Wait so they're upset that people used their IP to train a model without their consent or paying them anything?

or is this just about the token reselling?

tonyoconnell 2 hours ago||
The narrative is moving towards KYC
nonethewiser 1 hour ago|
Im all for it.
andai 2 hours ago||
We have Claude at home!
rvz 7 hours ago||
Notice how Anthropic is now scapegoating Chinese models providers like Alibaba and outright accusing them of distilling their models.

Whether if it is true or not, this is part of their effort into using them as an example to scare everyone into getting congress to ban powerful models from being accessed outside of the US and also banning powerful local models from being released.

Anthropic does not care about you, and they are not your friends.

sheepscreek 2 hours ago||
I think it’s more than that. Piecing together the perspective of a few commentators in this post - it’s plausible Anthropic is trying to shift the narrative from US vs. Rest of the world to US vs. China.

In other words, they want to sell Fable or future more powerful models to rest of the world (presumably all future models are going to be more powerful than current gen). One way they can sell this is to the government is by scapegoating China (which is their primary concern anyway).

This is working on the presumption that non-US companies form a material portion of their current revenue.

re-thc 2 hours ago||
> Whether if it is true or not

If it was just "that easy" then I doubt only "Chinese models" would be doing it and we'd already be packed with competition.

Distilling might be a thing but it isn't a free win.

skeledrew 2 hours ago||
Only China really has the resources (multiple labs invested in the space), culture (Asians are generally collectively-inclined, so sharing is in their core) and political bent (there will be no diplomatic repercussions) to put up a fight.
re-thc 1 hour ago||
> Only China really has the resources (multiple labs invested in the space)

That's not the point. Why is it a country thing? There are plenty of non-China startups in this space having resources at that scale. The "China" has resources is some "Western media narrative" speak. So Meta should have won a long time ago? Or xAI?

> culture (Asians are generally collectively-inclined, so sharing is in their core)

Just stereotype it? So we've gone from China -> "Asian"? Then where is your Korean or Japanese model etc? And somehow you know they're sharing.

> political bent (there will be no diplomatic repercussions) to put up a fight

More inferring from "Western media news"?

Where's the reality?

The media hyped up Gemini / Google TPU free-win last year. How did that go?

skeledrew 1 hour ago||
> Why is it a country thing?

Because the China vs US geopolitical situation is a thing. Meta is a social media company, not an AI company, and they direct their focus as such. xAI just never got serious traction so now they're selling their compute. Also if a US company were caught distilling, I think Anthropic could actually take them to court, and I'd guess they don't want that kind of PR.

> Just stereotype it?

Is China not Asian? Are Asians not generally collective/cooperative, as opposed to individualistic/competitive?

The "and" that joined those 3 items is very important: it means you can't pull them apart and address them independently as they each contribute to the context. I'm not too sure about Korea, but in a way Japan is a US colony in all but name. Both are very much politically intertwined with the West (along with RoC/Taiwan), which means nothing major that may be against US interest happens.

The reality is that China and the US are essentially in a trade war, where the latter is trying its best to keep the former in the Dark Ages, because "national security", but the former is refusing to take it lying down and continues to make progress regardless[0], because they have the resources and will.

[0] https://thenextweb.com/news/china-lineshine-supercomputer-to...

zb3 2 hours ago||
If true then Alibaba is doing us a public service, good job, I hope this extraction was successful.
jrflowers 2 hours ago||
I like that they use “illicit” and “fraudulent” like as if model distillation is illegal and giving them money and then doing whatever they want with the output of their publicly accessible models (which Anthropic does not own) is… also illegal?

“Anthropic, red faced after unattended ice cream cone eaten by ants on park bench, once again demands government pick it as forever winner, adds ‘no take backsies’”

ProAm 2 hours ago||
Says the company that is involved in the largest copyright heists of all time to build it's product.
gaiagraphia 2 hours ago|
A company which got rich on extracting the world's content is complaining that another company has extracted their work?!

LOL!

Get a grip, son.

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