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Posted by tosh 4 hours ago

OpenRA(www.openra.net)
276 points | 62 comments
liendolucas 3 hours ago|
If you play the original and then OpenRA you will be amazed how well OpenRA is balanced.

As an example, while in the original game using allied artillery against soviet tesla coils was a dead sentence in OpenRA is great to be able to fire well beyond its range forcing you to come out of the base to defend it.

They also added a ton of features which make the game truly enjoyable and fun to play.

Well done OpenRA team!

hypercube33 2 hours ago||
Weird. I find the balance for player vs AI to be actually pretty horrible. AI can outrange artillery sight so you have no choice but to push forward always or micro manage units. I have a fork of OpenRA on my GitHub where I try to address this, along with pathfinding bugs, enabling Tiberian Sun and fixing bugs with that. I also updated it to cross platform .NET 10 and bumped the performance up about 6-10x fixing minor bugs. Debating if I'll roll any of the code over as pulls to the main project ever after I tried to fix a random bug before and they were not welcoming to me but that was like a decade ago.
mitthrowaway2 1 hour ago|||
Link to your GitHub? I'd love to play the version with your improvements!
opengears 2 minutes ago||
https://github.com/hypercube33/OpenRA/
liendolucas 1 hour ago||||
The comparison was against the original game. I haven't played on the computer since ages, but that was my impression the times I played it. I'm not deep into all the nuances of the game just that it was considerably better that the 1995 release.
benoau 44 minutes ago||
1995 was the original "Command and Conquer" not "Red Alert". In the original C&C the computer wouldn't attack sandbox walls which was basically godmode since you could just fence them off heh.
b112 1 hour ago|||
The load/save is what kills me. It's a great project, but having to wait 2 hours for a game to load, fans blaring on my laptop, makes it less playable.

For context, I love huge, massive maps with loads of players. OpenRA replays the entire game to restore, it doesn't have a save-current-state routine.

So 20 hours of massive map + 8 players means 2 hours of pegged CPU to reload the save.

Heartbreaking.

lenkite 28 minutes ago|||
Now, that is what I call taking the "Command Design Pattern" to heart!
apitman 1 hour ago|||
> So 20 hours of massive map + 8 players means 2 hours of pegged CPU to reload the save.

It's super impressive this works at all.

abixb 3 hours ago|||
Tangential, but I got introduced to Red Alert C&C through various 'Hell March' videos by random fans of various militaries on YouTube. It's funny how it vibes with nearly every military you throw it over.
cogman10 3 hours ago||
I love using the RA OST for coding. The songs are fun and fast paced with low lyrics.

It helps that this is a childhood favorite game of mine.

doublerabbit 1 hour ago|||
Frank Klepacki is a legend of a musician.
OptionOfT 2 hours ago|||
Try the Doom ones.
cogman10 2 hours ago||
I'll have to give them a shot, but admittedly the nostalgia is almost certainly a big reason I love the RA OST (and starcraft as well).

I didn't play enough doom to really love it in the same way.

b112 1 hour ago||
It's the same backend, so it's a bit like a fun theme difference. I played Dune2 first, and like RA too.
JumpCrisscross 2 hours ago||
APC + flamethrowers was the new WTF in OpenRA, if I remember correctly.
bethekidyouwant 1 hour ago||
If you play online and have a low rating of course buddy is gonna try this
ceejayoz 6 minutes ago||
I have such fond memories of this game. Editing the .ini files was a delight - I distinctly remember giving Tanya (with her incredibly rapid-fire guns) cruiser shells and having basically the entire map blow up instantaneously.
t0mas88 24 minutes ago||
OpenRA is great, it feels like a better version of Red Alert 2.

The one thing I'm missing is C&C Generals and Zero Hour. Those were also really fun to play over LAN.

pooplord7 6 minutes ago||
I didnt check what makes OpenRA special but theres open source efforts to „remaster“ generals and zero hour.

https://github.com/TheSuperHackers/GeneralsGameCode

alasano 21 minutes ago||
A better version of Red Alert 2 is insanely high praise.
patentlyze 2 hours ago||
OpenRA is awesome.

Whoever runs it, you're awesome!

The player base is only slightly lower than when I used to play RA2 on dial-up like 20 years ago.

I've boycotted EA ever since they ruined the franchise.

dice 1 hour ago||
We used to play RA on my friend's home network, which was thin net running IPX. The house rule was that if we'd collectively built enough units that the game started slowing down you had to attack. It was good times.
apitman 1 hour ago|
When it worked, IPX LAN was maybe the peak UX in multiplayer gaming.

Moving everything to TCP/IP came with a lot of improvements, but we also lost important things. Reminds me of the move from Flash to HTML5.

farbklang 1 hour ago||
Shoutout to one of my favorite OpenRA podcaster - watching the game is a lot less stressful than actually playing it: https://www.youtube.com/@CovertFlobert
JumpCrisscross 4 hours ago||
Has anyone built better AIs for this?
egeozcan 3 hours ago||
When I was a teen I was mostly writing RA2 custom map scripts and rules/units for my friends and watch them battle with my rules in internet cafes. When that was not possible, I was creating custom RA2 AIs, but it was very hard.

These days, I'm having incredible fun developing good old AI scripts with LLMs, for my own vibe-coded RTS game. Just choose all AI players here to make them battle each other: https://egeozcan.github.io/unnamed_rts/game/

I even let the LLM generate a tournament script to make AI scripts from different LLMs battle (headless): https://github.com/egeozcan/unnamed_rts/blob/main/src/script... GPT-5.5 leaves all in the dust currently. I cannot beat most in the game I set the rules myself :)

If you are like me, you can just make LLMs create your personal RTS game and also develop custom AIs. It's so much fun.

wahnfrieden 3 hours ago|||
Were you familiar with my modding site RA2Factory?
yard2010 1 hour ago|||
You are awesome, thank you for being such a magical part of my childhood
egeozcan 2 hours ago|||
Yes! I downloaded a lot of shps voxels and map packs from your site! I think it was the beginning of 2000s? Anyway, a very delayed thank you!
b112 1 hour ago|||
Huh. You know, I wonder. The API provided to AI scripts must have enough info for limited strategies, but I've never seen what's what. You have.

What are the possibilities for just giving Claude that each turn. Yes, insane over kill, but in a couple of years Claude level AI will run locally on laptops...

apitman 1 hour ago|||
I know you meant player AI, but now I'm imagining an RTS where every unit is running a small reasoning LLM.
doublerabbit 1 hour ago||
It's already in the works. NDA but the studio I gig at, their Ai love to send NPCs off cliffs.

Because there is no collision between the sky and floor it determines that this is the quickest route. Even with zoning it does something you'll never think of.

Using LLMs as NPCs can be hilarious to watch.

_superposition_ 6 minutes ago||
I need to hear more. That or start my own NPC circus.
logdahl 3 hours ago|||
I might suck but I found it really hard iirc :^(
dogma1138 3 hours ago||
AI in strategy games always cheats I haven’t seen a single game where the AI wasn’t built around cheating. Once you figure out how it cheats it’s usually a combination of resource multipliers, build time multipliers and not having a fog of war it becomes much essier to beat at any difficulty.
ben_w 3 hours ago|||
Not always.

For a lot of games it can be surprisingly easy to make an AI which beats the median player even when limited to just basic strategies, simply by not getting distracted by the gut feelings that humans have.

Even for more complex strategy games like say Starcraft II where that's not enough, there's this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaStar_(software)

jtolmar 1 hour ago||||
There's a whole scene around making bots for Starcraft: Broodwar, using an API (BWAPI) that doesn't allow cheating. They're quite good now, better than most humans. But the top bots still can't beat a pro, or even a high ranked ladder player.
invader 3 hours ago|||
Often, but not always.

I hate the term "AI" applied to games, since AI means so many things and usually implies something smart, "intelligent". But in reality, it is more like a "bot" or a "computer player". And the main goal is not to be super-smart, but to be plausible enough and provide an appropriate challenge to the human player.

There are some "fair" bots in games - like in my favorite turn-based Mechanized Assault and Exploration from the mid 90s. Computer players follow the same rules as the human ones - e.g., if something is not visible to the radar, the computer will not see it. The only "cheat" is the resource boost computer players can have on the higher difficulty settings, but it is totally optional. And as an experienced player, you always let the computer have it, since you want a challenge, and without that boost, it has no chance whatsoever.

Sharlin 3 hours ago||
Real-time strategy AI is absolutely AI in the standard Russell & Norvig sense of AI. There's nothing about the computer science concept of AI that implies "super-smart" or always trying to outsmart the player (rather than trying to be entertaining).

Continuously shifting the goalposts of what "AI" is is, of course, a well-known phenomenon, giving rise to what's called the AI effect or Tesler's theorem [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_effect

invader 2 hours ago|||
Maybe it is, given that the classical AI definition is so broad, it can mean almost anything. But for me, there's a fundamental difference between something that "tries to be intelligent" and something that "tries to appear to be intelligent".

That is why I prefer to call them "bots" or "computers" - just to separate them from a shifting mess of definitions of what "AI" actually means. It reminds me of "Destination Void" by Frank Herbert, where the main characters were trying to build artificial consciousness and were struggling to define what it actually means.

stephantul 2 hours ago|||
Thanks for introducing me to the article! I’ve experienced this myself but didn’t know it had a name.
singpolyma3 3 hours ago|||
Does the project allow AI?
tremon 3 hours ago||
Old-skool AI, aka cpu opponent.
9dev 3 hours ago||
Pitching in on this with a tangent - how good are LLMs with RTS games these days? As someone without friends into that genre, it’d be pretty cool to play eg. AoE II against a capable computer that play like a real human…
yard2010 1 hour ago|||
Instead of driving the agent with an llm, it might work to use the agent to hard code heuristics, and use some kind of a simulation to benchmark its skills? Then feeding the results back to the agent so it can improve the heuristics?
clates 3 hours ago||||
Depends on what you mean, LLMs can probably _make_ pretty good AIs. It'll have all the AI scripts in the base game, including the three iterations (base, FE, DE) all the user generated ones ( including barbarian ) and then able to consume the language schema. Rig up a baby model that takes the matchup during loading and hot swaps one of your pregenerated AI scripts.

If you meant _playing_ raw based on LLM input - that's probably the wrong tool for the job. The latency for you to react to a mango shot is faster than a billion tok/s lol

HeavyStorm 3 hours ago|||
It's improving but sota models are now too slow for a real time game. Training a specialized neural network would be more effecient.
Havoc 3 hours ago||
Need to try this at some point. The other open RTS - beyondallreason - is really good too.
guptalog 19 minutes ago||
it's great
dijit 3 hours ago|
I just wish I still had the original games to use as content packs.

Every time I've tried to install this previously, this was my wall :(

tremon 3 hours ago|
https://cnc-comm.com/red-alert/downloads/the-game

EA released CnC and Red Alert as free downloads twenty years ago.

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