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Posted by loughnane 7 hours ago

The labor share of income in the US is at its lowest post-war level(libertystreeteconomics.newyorkfed.org)
437 points | 456 commentspage 4
bendbro 6 hours ago|
We should break up monopolies, revoke the vast majority of work visas, end free trade, and unionize.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk, please leave a downvote to indicate I caused you emotional distress.

jmye 5 hours ago|
> please leave a downvote to indicate I caused you emotional distress.

How deeply puerile.

nimbius 6 hours ago||
this is relatively unremarkable for those with an understanding of wage, labor, profit, price and capital.

capitalism will always seek to reduce labor cost. during the epoch of neoliberalism it achieved great strides in this by reducing labor power through union busting by both thatcher and reagan in the UK and US respectively. it has also effectively curtailed any increase in the minimum wage for nearly 20 years as well as reduced protections, regulation and prosecution for wage theft and overtime pay violations which it maintains as exclusively as civil matters while ensuring theft itself from a merchant in turn is always a criminal matter through the primacy of private property.

to learn more i recommend reading Marx's "Das Kapital," albeit its rather academic. Engels "wage labor" is also a good read to understand why housing is so persistently unaffortable but helps to understand why any other good or service slowly becomes so as well.

torginus 5 hours ago||
The problem is we are one step beyond capitalist exploitation as described by Marx - basically the surplus which fatcat industrialists extract from the laborer does not really exist - you have to compete in the market with others who do the same, and offer things at the lowest possible margins, and if you need to be big enough to get capital in, you have investors who demand their profits.

So basically you are squeezed between the public demanding lower prices and the investors demanding record returns. If you are not a monopoly, that is an impossible ask

Basically the only truly profitable businesses left out there is selling hopes and dreams to investors, and shovels to those who build them, which just about describes tech & AI, with companies who regularly manage to 10x their valuations (and P/E ratios)

aeternum 6 hours ago|||
Marx fails to imagine a world in which labor actually has little to no value.

His worldview is primarily that capitalists 'steal' the valuable labor. However it doesn't seem that that is actually the world we are in. Instead the intrinsic value of human labor seems to be slowly trending towards zero.

And it kind of makes sense, same has happened with oxen labor, horse labor, etc.

saghm 6 hours ago|||
> And it kind of makes sense, same has happened with oxen labor, horse labor, etc.

Sounds like we should start imagining a world where we don't treat people like literal livestock, and then figure out how to get there fast

wqaatwt 6 hours ago||||
Isn’t it the complete opposite? i.e. high automatization means that a single worker can create many times more value than before. However it reduces the demand for labor and worker bargaining power. So companies have no incentive to pair “fair” wages.
aeternum 4 hours ago||
That is true but likely only temporarily. Why is the single worker even needed?

We tend to have a pretty human-centric worldview so if there's a single human working to keep a hotel running, our default is to attribute all the generated value to them when it really isn't the case. You can imagine that hotel at some point in the near future goes from requiring 1 worker to keep it running to zero.

wqaatwt 3 hours ago||
> is the single worker even needed

Because he is? I do not expect for some sort of universal “AGI” to emerge within my lifetime which would supplant humans in every area (of course what do I know.. but still there is no real indication we are even remotely close to that currently)

> default is to attribute all the generated value to them when it really isn't the case

Certainly, you should attribute a significant proportion to the people who installed the automated system and even more to those who designed it.

aeternum 1 hour ago||
>Certainly, you should attribute a significant proportion to the people who installed the automated system and even more to those who designed it.

Indeed, but what happens if/when they choose to sell the system and someone else buys it? Now the owner is who is generating the value. Even if he hires some maintenance worker to come by once and awhile and check up on it, it is the system (aka the capital), not the worker that is generating the vast majority of the value.

arthurptj 6 hours ago||||
Then why does every plumber I know own a yacht
cucumber3732842 5 hours ago||
Industry cartel.

If you landscaper had one like the plumbers do he'd have his own yacht.

Or he wouldn't exist because you'd buy about as much of his services as you do a plumber's.

anthonypasq 6 hours ago||||
low skilled human labor is going to zero. high skill approaches infinity.
torginus 5 hours ago||||
> Marx fails to imagine a world in which labor actually has little to no value.

Marxism was an idea formulated especially as a reaction against a world where labor has lost almost all of its value. Which is precisely the origin of capitalism - the idea that money itself can be productive, and thus people who have lots of money can be expected to get more of it.

This was an untrue idea for most of human history, outside of the circles of moneylending and banking.

AlotOfReading 6 hours ago|||
It doesn't seem like the value of human labor is going away. If you look at luxury goods, they're still "handmade". Telecoms still advertise human representatives. Nursing homes still charge massive amounts for personal service.

What's changing is how much of that surplus value is captured by the workers doing the labor.

simianwords 6 hours ago||
Unfortunate to see educated and smart people quote Marx. No serious economist takes him seriously.

Labour theory of value is useless. Falling rate of profit is not empirical. Capitalism didn’t go away as he predicted.

Workers enjoy highest living standards of any time in history.

abdullahkhalids 6 hours ago||
> Workers enjoy highest living standards of any time in history.

It's entirely possible for someone to be paid a lot in absolute terms, while at the same time paid very little relative to the value that they produce which is monetarily captured by their organization. The truth of the first does not invalidate the injustice of the second.

kevmo 6 hours ago||
This is clearly heading in a direction where the USA is going to elect a huge number of socialists, who in turn are going to enact massive taxes on billionaires and break up the monopolies.[1]

This is why I think the billionaire oligarchs are literally mentally ill. They've won the entire game. They control everything. They live like gods, they twitch a pinky and millions dance.

But their response to all of this power is to seek even more of it, destabilizing the very system that has them on top. You would think self-preservation would kick in. The fact that it is not and that their greed knows apparently no bounds is going to lead to their extinction.

For a long time I thought it was hyperbolic to say so, but no longer -- the billionaires are mentally ill.

[1] https://work.news/post/project-2031/

imightbebatman 6 hours ago||
I very much doubt that. There isn't enough class solidarity to pull it off.

There will be a few who brand themselves as such. But actually seizing the means of production and handing them over to the people? -- The oligarchs will burn this country to the ground before they permit that to happen.

wqaatwt 6 hours ago||
It would of course be lose-lose for everyone. But if a significant proportion of the population starts believing (rationally or not) that they have nothing left to lose it could be problematic.
nairboon 6 hours ago||
Remember Occupy Wall Street? Back then the oligarchs were somewhat scared.
deaux 5 hours ago||
I too don't believe that GP's dream is going to happen, but the current momentum is much stronger than in the OWS days. Maybe it's less visible to some because the world has moved into online algorithmic bubbles rather than people camping in front of Wall Street. If they were more scared back then than they are now, it's not because the current momentum is actually weaker.
ihsw 5 hours ago||
[dead]
nekusar 5 hours ago||
Well yeah. This is why we're calling end-stage capitalism. What's coming looks like technofeudalism.

All companies are rent-seeking. Selling something is no longer a goal.

Prices go up up up up up.

Oligopolies and price fixing is normal.

Monopolies are normal with little/no controls.

People are getting paid a pittance to the work done.

Unions are their weakest in a century.

NLRB is basically frozen due to no quorum on the head board.

Companies routinely scam and lie at multiple places in hiring pipeline. FTC does nothing.

Neither party (Republicans or Democrats), save the DSA, fights for the American people.

Its all coming to a head, and baskets, and guillotines. Anybody who studies history knows what kind of powderkeg this situation is. Its also the reason the Ancient Romans made panem et circunses (bread and circus) cheap or free. You get riots and revolts otherwise.

simianwords 6 hours ago||
I find this metric misleading. Where is the extra money going? To whom? Turns out most of it is not going to billionaires. Bulk of it is going to future investments. If we choose not to do that, we lose out on future gains.
cool_dude85 6 hours ago||
Who owns the capital for those future investments? Who will receive returns on those investments?
wqaatwt 6 hours ago||
Speculation or actual investment? Assuming that the allocation of capital is somehow aligned with what’s optimal for the economy/society seems naive
logicchains 5 hours ago||
It's not naive, it's near optimal. The system rewards people who've done well at capital allocation with more capital to allocate, and takes capital away from those who've done poorly at it. And there's no better predict of future performance at allocating capital than past performance.
wqaatwt 3 hours ago||
Well my point was that it might be optimal for the one doing the allocation and maximize their returns. That does not mean its optimal for the economy and society on the whole.
simianwords 3 hours ago||
Actually it does mean it is optimal for the economy as opposed to a central planner who somehow has all the information and does planning with precision. These are mainstream views in economics.
wqaatwt 2 hours ago||
Actually markets are always rational, perfectly efficient and there are no speculative bubbles? Of course not.

So its obviously suboptimal, only question if there is a more optimal system.

> central planner who somehow has all the information

Every developed country is balancing that with free markets and its the mainstream view that a balanced system is optimal (the exact ratio is of course something’s that not quite settled).

simianwords 2 hours ago||
Yes and going back to the your original question

> Assuming that the allocation of capital is somehow aligned with what’s optimal for the economy/society seems naive

The empirical facts are that the disposable real wages have gone up by more than 50% over the last 20 years. People are way richer now than before and the growth in USA is much higher than any other developed nation other than small edge cases.

wqaatwt 1 hour ago||
The causal link between those two data points is not exactly obvious.
bdangubic 6 hours ago||
buy shares of companies with any excess money you have and your share will grow
jmyeet 6 hours ago||
Now consider this against the rising productivity-pay gap that has been widening since teh 1970s [1].

The big picture here is increasing wealth inequality and that has been on steroids since the pandemic.

The only shocking part to me is how people continually and intentionally don't see it or, worse, think they'll be unaffected by it so don't care. You see this on HN where so many people seem to think they'll be Jeff Bezos one day.

But even if that's true, don't you want to live in a society where you don't need armed guards at your house and you don't need armed escorts to go anywhere? Because that's what we're heading towards. One of the problems with American society (in particular) being so car-centric is that it lets people insulate themselves from the rest of society more easily. In cities like NYC you're forced to see and deal with the less fortunate. You can't hide from it so easily.

We don't need trillionaires. We need to raise basic living standards so people have food and shelter and we don't need to separate society into slums and armored compounds.

[1]: https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/

palmotea 6 hours ago|
> The only shocking part to me is how people continually and intentionally don't see it or, worse, think they'll be unaffected by it so don't care. You see this on HN where so many people seem to think they'll be Jeff Bezos one day.

Software engineers are a special kind of stupid: the kind that thinks they're smarter than everyone else.

pocksuppet 6 hours ago||
55%? Ew. We can get it even lower. I want my profits.
smallmancontrov 6 hours ago|
I am John Capitalism and I revoke the USA's permission to use my name until they crush labor share of income below 50%.
newaccountman2 6 hours ago|
And the Republic response to this is "soc1lism bad!!"
saghm 6 hours ago|
Not even just Republicans, unfortunately. The generation of Americans who grew up in the Cold War were inundated with propaganda about how socialism would destroy America, and then go and say things like this https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/26/us/politics/moderate-demo...
newaccountman2 5 hours ago||
Yeah. The boomers are a real problem.
fsckboy 2 hours ago||
You say the boomers are a problem simply because they are old and the young hate the old (ageism), and because they have money and you want it, now.

Boomers created everything you like about this world, including youth culture itself, "don't trust anybody over 30".

Their predecessor generations, their parents and grandparents, believed comprehensively in things you despise.

I know this because I hated the boomers when they were young, and you all sound just like them.

newaccountman2 1 hour ago||
They are a deeply selfish and immoral generation on the whole who make excuses for evil and denigrate anyone tryin to do good. Just looking at their voting patterns makes it quite clear.

Such a lame attempt to defend them by you lol--what makes you think money has anything to do with it? That's Boomer logic; IME, Boomers and right-wingers believe everyone is as self-centered as they are.