Posted by Tiberium 23 hours ago
Ironic to be excluding the same percent of the population as the population he is being inclusive for
I find this comment substantive in that it may spark introspection by the decision makers in his or similar positions
But the truth is it’s bullshit and this attitude that companies should be able to do whatever they want because it’s a free market is getting so tiresome
Clearly there is agreement that things can be taken too far - as soon as one single consumer protection/anti competitive/monopoly preventing law exists, you’ve admitted those types of laws are needed
So then you’re only arguing about degrees and companies shouldn’t be allowed to do shit that harms consumers this way
On the surface this seems reasonable - it’s inevitable - discs aren’t going to hang around forever
But this goes back to what it means to own something and we’re all being relegated to serfs who don’t own shit
You wanna get rid of discs? Fine, but give me an alternative so that I still own what I buy and can resell it at will
Get ready for your games to be delisted [1] as you never owned them in the first place (unless you have the disc)
Is that really enough? AFAIK many PC games with SecuROM won't ever work without crack, as that entire DRM is incompatible with modern OSes.
On PC, discs (when they even exist, which is rare) have basically just been digital keys for a long time.
Don’t buy their consoles and games
And what’s the point of physical games? So you can play the game in 30 years from now on some retro console you’ve diligently maintained?
Get over it, you’re not going to do any of that. There’s no mythical third act where you go through some library of physical CDs and reminisce about an old ass game. There’s constantly new games coming out all the time, you will just keep buying and buying games, you play them for a bit, and then you move on. It’s not “buy it for life”, it’s buy it for right now have fun and move on. Live in the present, don’t worry about the future.
Even people who have retro consoles and collect physical copies seem to mostly do it for collector purposes. When they die, their kids will send all that to a dump or pawn it off. Pointless.
Maybe things will be like the Nintendo BS-X where people will reverse engineer consoles with games downloaded to extract the game from it.
That being said I do have a physical Atari 2600 with a few games. Astroblast with paddles is still a fun game today, and Video Olympics (the Atari VCS version of Pong) is extremely fun to bring out at parties.
Huh? You won't replay every game, sure, but once in a while you'll find a game that you keep coming back to even many years after first playing it. The last time I played Pokémon Red all the way through was only a few years ago. I have permanent Deus Ex, Crysis, FEAR, and Duke Nukem 3D installations on my hard drive, so I can run them for a bit whenever I feel like. Maybe once you put down a game you never pick it again, but don't assume what is true of you is true of everybody.
You enjoy it mostly because you’ve enjoyed it once before.
Regardless, it is not even an argument for physical media, you don’t even have physical copies of these old games, and even if you did, holding the physical copy wouldn’t add anything to your experience besides a bit of novelty.
Physical discs should be obsolete.
What do you mean? I'll try anything if I think it will appeal to me, but I don't know any children to ask what they're into to conduct this experiment.
>or even better try something that people used to like long before you were born, in which case you will very likely see these things as pointless quite quickly.
Like how long? I like classical music. I don't really like theater. I read Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde and liked it; I read Martín Fierro and hated it. What conclusion do we draw from all this?
>If you observe these things, it is easy to see that nostalgia is enjoyable because it is about associating your youth and naiveté with the object of nostalgia.
No, I don't agree. I don't agree that I derive nostalgic enjoyment from the examples I gave previously. I think that I can enjoy them because they're familiar things that I can engage with as a matter of routine. I can enjoy them for the same reason I biked to work through the same route for over ten years straight without getting bored. Someone completely new cannot derive that same routinary enjoyment. For example, DOOM is basically just as old as Duke Nukem 3D, but I only played it many years later, and so I never finished it (but I also don't think I would have liked it as much back in the day; the gameplay is just not as good. I should try other Build games to see how they compare). As another example, I should definitely feel nostalgia for Saint Seiya, but I tried multiple times just couldn't get through it. It's just for children, an adult can't miss the obvious plot holes. But I saw The Lion King in the theater and then dozens of times on VHS, and then dozens more times off my NAS 20+ years later, and loved it every time -- as an adult I just could better understand why it was so good.
>If you grew up
You're asking to be told off.
>you would see that it is just some distraction that merchants brought to you to profit from your stupidity. If you realize this, you'll enjoy not having to deal with that shit a lot more.
I don't "deal with" the things I like. I like them. Engaging with them is not something I'm forced to do that I have to cope with. Are you an alien? What do you do for fun? Stack rocks on the beach? Or is fun a foreign concept to you?
The idea that no generation can truly enjoy art created by previous generations is, frankly, laughable. And I don't see any reason why that would be different for games.
Sure, I love replaying some of the games I loved when I grew up. But I also love discovering classic games that I had never even heard of before. Likewise, there are many games I enjoyed in my youth that I just can't get into anymore. Sure, nostalgia is a factor, but it's just one amongst many.
Once they used to be even better because they'd come with manuals, posters, and more inside the case, but unfortunately they already took that away from us...
isn’t this the same with steam? can i buy a game on steam and copy and use it on another pc i own without downloading it from steam again?
No you can't. When you pay for a Steam game, you rent not buy it.
True.
https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/ "The Content and Services are licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Content and Services."
> The wast majority of games can be backed up locally and reinstalled indefinitely without online access
That doesn't mean you bought/own them.
Everything about digital-only is anti-consumer. Games will be more expensive with fewer and less important discount, the second-hand market will be dead, and so will be sharing games to friends so they can experience it for free.
Nintendo has implemented lending a digital game, but with arbitrary limits (you HAVE to be in physical proximity for the lending process, it lasts a maximum of two weeks, and you can lend 3 / borrow 1 game at a time). Sony and Microsoft don't let you do that.
This is exactly how I do it - I don't have much time for gaming as much as I would like to so I just buy one game at a time (~90% of the time it's used one), finish it, sell it and possibly look for another one; as the catalogue is so big there is no point of hoarding games
I used to own xbox and had digital collection of games - most of them I never even started (much easier to hoard stuff when it's digital); I don't have that console anymore and I was left with a useless collection of stuff I don't own tied to my online account - never doing that again
Overall I hate this news so much, I probably will give up with 'modern' gaming altogether
This affects less people, but there are also many who like collecting them. Physical objects are nice, especially if you've been keeping all your old games for old consoles.
Which also ties into control of course: you can still play your games, even if the companies that made them and the console no longer exist, buy old games from retro shops, buy new games for old consoles from new indie devs, etc.
Unless that game ties to your account and disc becomes useless, or you game need a day 1 patch or day 412 patch or game is online or disc actually just a dummy that lets you download the game. Yes, the (in)convince of physical media totally worth it just so can sell what I got for $40/60/70 for $4 store credit at gamestop. All to have less control than I have from digital download from steam or GOG on PC.
But a lot of games are playable just fine without any patches, and there are plenty of physical releases, especially of indie games, which come out after the digital release and include all the patches. And putting aside the nice aspect of owning a physical object (often with cool things like a manual or map in the past and still true with many indie releases now) you still have no control over digital downloads unless it's DRM free, and even then you need to keep back up copies because the service you downloaded it from might disappear.
Tell me how does physical disc protect ownership? Then compare it to my digital downloads in steam where I can just copy game files between computers (if it's DRM-free)
> Also just look at the parallel issue that happened exactly these days with Sony deleting purchased movies from libraries. The same will happen with games.
I don't think Sony is much to blame here. They lost rights to distribute that content, so they can't distribute it. Blame copyright laws, not Sony.
As for Destiny not working,this is a related but different problem, stopkillinggames tries to tackle it, but both issues go hand in hand.
1. If we give up physical copies,we lose ownership,as simple as that
2. Server side components must be released by the publisher once they take offline a game, as long as that game was "sold" to the customer
So ownership is a very important component in this, don't make it sound absurd.
> How were they allowed to "sell" those titles in the first place then? Because it was never implied that access might be lost or restricted,it was very much sold to customers,not rented.
It was in EULA and ToS.
Disc consoles are superior in nearly every way:
- Disc consoles also have a hard drive, best of both worlds.
- You own the physical game. You don't own the digital version, just a license to it, which can be revoked, and deleted.
- You can trade games in 2 seconds.
- People can collect and play hundreds of games over the years on an moments notice, not waiting to download something. Games do try to compete to have the most of the players time, but it's not how all gamers play.
- Patches are normal for all games, and patches are usually smaller sizes than the entire game.
- Vintage is kind of popular now. None of those vintage systems, the original PS1/2/3/4 or Nintendos would be able to be experienced easily or at all if the physical media still didn't exist and survive. Digital platforms disappear when the system is EOL. Emulators can help, but it's a specialty and niche crowd. Handing a Nintendo to kids is something else.
When it comes to consoles - you do not.
- some games change with updates (try to play destiny 2 red war story line with your physical disc that you can still buy for some reason despite game being free)
- Nintendo can block specific cartridges (only thing that step Xbox and PS from doing that now is that it's not implemented on their end)
- some games have separate online pass and/or DLC codes that can only activated once
- on PC CDs used to come with a cd-key you had to activate (still do?)
- See Xbox One 2013 DRM plan
Only way to "own" a game is to have a pirated version of a game regardless of a platform.