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Posted by cf100clunk 3 days ago

The Vespa at 80(www.cbc.ca)
114 points | 98 comments
incanus77 4 minutes ago|
I've had a 2016 150cc LXVie in silver with maroon leather since new; have put about 6,000 city miles on it. It's a wonderful machine. I bought it when my wife died after we had taken the motorcycle certification together in anticipation of getting one someday soon. I'm in the process of selling it now, though, as it's time. But it's such an iconic brand and I constantly get thumbs up and even notes left on it.
esperent 5 hours ago||
I like Vespas, they're very stylish, but damn they are noisy, and not a nice rumble either but more like a very loud chainsaw. They give off a terrible amount of smoke compared more modern scooters too. I do often wonder why so few other new small motorcycles or scooters have similarly beautiful designs though.

However, for me, having lived in a country with a motorbike culture for the last decade, the coolest thing on two wheels is electric scooters. So much torque, range nearly equal to same sized gas scooters, and no pollution of the noise or smoke variety. It makes such a difference when everyone is zipping around on these quiet, non-stinking scooters. That's cool. Now it just needs someone to make an electric scooter design as iconic as a Vespa.

weberer 4 hours ago||
It sounds like you're describing a 2-stroke engine, which older Vespas did use. But modern ones use a 4-stroke engine and should have the same emissions profile as any other motorcycle.
anal_reactor 3 hours ago|||
I live next to a road and combustion-engine mopeds vary from "holy fuck this is loud" to "I can't wait to move out". I used to live close to an airport and that was much better. The specific noise that mopeds make drills into your head. Funnily, I'm never bothered by nails on chalkboard or cutlery on plate, but mopeds, holy fuck, if hell exists, it's full of mopeds.
mulmen 33 minutes ago||
Vespas aren’t mopeds.
realo 3 hours ago|||
Yes, but still terrible, pollution wise.

Electric Vespa anyone?

esperent 3 hours ago|||
They did make one for a while but it's terrible. €5000 with similar specs to a €1000 bike from other companies.
FinnKuhn 2 hours ago||
They still make some models in an electric variant.
asveikau 3 hours ago|||
I haven't been following the latest developments but about 10 years ago they launched "Vespa elettrica". It was very expensive and low powered at launch. Not sure if they've iterated on it since.

I suspect that other brands of electric motorbike may be better

GenerWork 4 hours ago|||
Are you thinking of older Vespas? There's a few modern ones near me and they've never struck me as overly noisy.
flkiwi 4 hours ago|||
A guy across the street from me has a new one. It's loud as hell, but this guy is the type to remove his muffler to make whatever car he has this week sound "cooler". I'm not ready to blame the scooter yet.
esperent 3 hours ago||||
I'm talking about the Vespas I actually experience on a daily basis. I don't know if they're new or old, but I can assure you that they are loud and smoky.
ex-aws-dude 4 hours ago|||
Yeah I have no idea what they are talking about

I have a 150 4-stroke that is fuel injected and it’s way quieter than any motorcycle and has very little exhaust smell

dghlsakjg 57 minutes ago||
The older ones or modified ones.

My parents have a newer 50cc and even at full speed it doesn’t make more noise than any car.

I had an old p200e 2-stroke Vespa and it was indeed smoky and loud. And also way more fun and useful.

joshuaheard 4 hours ago|||
Vespas have been around for so long because it is such a great design. They now make an electric Vespa.

https://storeusa.vespa.com/elettrica/vespa-elettrica-45-mph....

boomskats 3 hours ago||
That og elettrica has been all but cancelled in most markets. It was grossly underpowered and overpriced, which is a shame. IIRC they relaunched it as the primavera elettrica, without all the green/yellow bits, but it's still the same bike.
MomsAVoxell 3 hours ago|||
Switched from Vespa (combustion) to Unu (electric) and Black Tea (electric) .. and the one feature I yearn for, from the Vespa era, is its noise factor.

Electric is damn quiet, damn smooth, and damn fast. (And damn comfy.)

And that can be a problem. Especially in a city like, say, Vienna, where people just do not check before they cross some of these little cosy streets.

I became a much more alert and guarding rider when I switched from Vespa.

Maybe that's a good thing, I dunno, but I am gonna put a whistle on my helmet some day soon, I swear ..

esperent 3 hours ago|||
> people just do not check before they cross some of these little cosy streets.

Yes, you're supposed to be the one checking that you don't hit pedestrians. Cities are for humans first, machines second. Drive slower. If you want to drive fast, take a road trip.

jcims 2 hours ago|||
What a goofy comment.

Pedestrians are *also* subject to right-of-way rules, just like everyone else on the road. Many examples of people running between parked/stopped cars and getting smoked when they hit an open lane with a vehicle they did not expect to be there.

Not the driver's fault.

bee_rider 1 hour ago||||
This is true. But unfortunately it is correct advice being given to the person who isn’t causing the problem.

It would be interesting to see what an intentionally and well designed city could look like. I’d probably have a walkable city center, no cars, and maybe scooters could be allowed but required to have some automatic wireless-controlled limiter that keeps them below 10mph or something.

amarcheschi 1 hour ago||||
i drove for a few years both a moped that makes noise (the electric angel weeping sound) and one completely silent. Not making noise made many people cross the road without watching and putting me and them both in serious danger, and i'm kinda glad i'm not driving the silent one anymore
skeletal88 2 hours ago||||
You can check around all you want but it is not going to help if someone blindly decides to just step in front of you without looking anywhere. Pedestrians sometimes move totally randomly. This is a similar problem when riding a bicycle on a shared path. Sometimes they walk like they were alone on the path
rconti 43 minutes ago|||
It takes a certain kind of arrogance to assume that another person's direct experience must be wrong, and your take, based on a 14 word description of the scenario, must be right.

Two people who actually live the same experience may have different opinions on "right" and "wrong", and the law may differ from those opinions.

But man, assuming bad faith on the part of others is a hell of a way to go through life.

odiroot 23 minutes ago||||
TBQH from my experience people in Vienna are quite oblivious to single-track vehicles. No idea why but even cycling here is often scary.
tuan 2 hours ago||||
Or honk. Does your Vespa have a honk? In Vietnam, we honk our bikes to alert others especially around a curve. Foreign visitors complain about all the honking, and they are indeed annoying sometimes, but there is a reason why people do it.
esperent 54 minutes ago||
I also live in Vietnam and that's utter bs, sorry. People in Vietnam are generally chill and lovely, until they get onto the road where they become selfish, entitled, noisy assholes. They honk to avoid having to look, wait, or slow down. Trying to be a pedestrian in Vietnam is extremely stressful, nobody will ever give you right of way even on a sidewalk, instead they'll just drive directly at you while honking until you get out of the way.
kstrauser 2 hours ago|||
The motorcycle version of that is "if cars can't here me from a mile away, then I'm not safe enough" or "broken exhausts save lives" or such, and that makes me hate those particular motorcyclists, too.
boomskats 4 hours ago|||
I have a couple of Vespas - a '98 T5 and a 2011 PX Unità d'Italia - and honestly my favourite safety feature is the noise they _can_ make. Modern Vespas don’t sound like the old ones from the factory anymore, but the retro scene is strong, so a lot of tuning kits bring back that classic buzz.

In town, filtering, weaving through traffic, getting to the front at lights etc., being able to make a sound which is so ubiquitously embedded in culture that it's instantly recognisable, and so easily localised, really makes a difference. It might be audible, but it's still quieter than many bigger bikes that people ride around town on, and less obnoxious. I guess I'm not the only one who feels that way, as I get a ton of smiles and so many people make an effort to move out of my way - much more so than other bikes I see on the road.

I've been super excited for electric motorbikes for years. I nearly bought a Zero FXS/FXE during covid, and then for the last year or two i've been looking hard at a BMW CE04. But they’d change how I ride, and I’d be more hesitant using them around town simply because being almost inaudible makes me nervous in UK traffic. In saying that, I'd be a lot more comfortable riding around places with a decent cycling culture like Cambridge, where people are used to looking around for smaller quieter vehicles, so I guess this too will change over time. E-bikes are great, but there the problem isn't the ride, it's the theft/security/insurance aspects.

So yeah, I guess until a few of these things change, my buzzy Vespa, with its awesome clutch and gears and crappy little drum brake on the front, will continue to be my go-to.

bananamogul 2 hours ago||
Solving the safety problem by making it loud does not seem like a great solution.

Fast forward and everyone is driving nearly silent electric vehicles. I wouldn’t want loud Vespas then. Cutting city noise pollution is one of the benefits of electric vehicles.

toast0 27 minutes ago||
Should license movement noises from Hanna-Barbera. Jetsons or Flintstones are good, but there's probably other options.
odiroot 25 minutes ago|||
They're noisy, underpowered and way too expensive (also in maintenance). No wonder most of developing world rides Hondas.
nsbk 5 hours ago|||
My brother and I restored my dad’s ‘64 Vespa 150S and the thing is extremely loud!

It is very smelly as well as it’s a two stroke engine, but I don’t mind that at all. Quite the opposite

lavela 4 hours ago||
Agree, as long as you don't use it around other people it's probably fine.
bobthepanda 1 hour ago|||
admittedly i have not used a vespa myself, only seen. but an e bike is a pretty good mode of motor transport.
jb1991 3 hours ago|||
I have to agree that the amount of pollution these things put out is really a dealbreaker in modern times, in my opinion. They really smell up a street when they go by, it’s so noticeable after having mainly electric cars and bicycles going by.
filoleg 2 hours ago|||
The lack of noise and smoke is a big one.

I used to ride Honda CBR500R as my primary commute vehicle for a few years in Seattle. And while the rumble of the engine was not at the chainsaw-levels of annoying, it still sucked, it still emitted smoke, and I still had to wear ear protection. Which I would need to wear even on an electric motorcycle as well, to be fair, given that I took highway (and the wind noise at speeds above 60mph absolutely hurts hearing; after catching myself speaking way too loud after a ride a couple of times, I just invested into ear protection).

But even at low speeds, the engine noise was imo annoying for pedestrians. And, mind you, I ran it with a stock exhaust. I absolutely despise people who install extra-loud (illegal) aftermarket exhausts on purpose, because they know that nobody is gonna enforce it.

Electric is kinda solving all those problems. Just yesterday, I was walking outside in NYC, and an Amazon delivery van (manufactured by Rivian) was passing by. It was such a relief, because I initially saw a big van approaching and braced for noise and smoke. Beautifully enough, none of those concerns actually materialized, and it was just a fast/quiet/smokeless van.

I am not some radical pro-EV-at-all-costs person, but I would be lying if I said that EVs of all kinds don't bring tons of immediate benefits to me, even as an outside observer who doesn't currently. No noise + no smoke + lots of torque already makes the outside way nicer for passerbys. And it is way more fun for an operator of those too (I happily drove an EV car before for multiple years, until I moved to NYC and stopped driving).

bborud 2 hours ago|||
This is a really weird take that does not resemble any modern Vespa. Are you sure you looked at a modern Vespa and not some old 2 stroke thing?

Also, the range is pretty good. About 160 miles on a full tank, which no electric motorcycle or scooter I've tried can match. Drive it carefully and you can extend that range to probably 180 miles. You'll be lucky to get 80-100 miles out of an electrical motorcycle.

As for torque, sure the smaller Vespas could use more torque, but the 300cc has more than you will ever need in a city. And to be frank, it doesn't do too badly on longer trips either. It is certainly more comfortable than my Ducati.

Update: As for "modern". Note that my 300cc Vespa is about 10 years old now. So it isn't all that new either.

dv_dt 4 hours ago||
Ive seen someone make electric retrofit kits for vespas which sounds great to me
amarcheschi 4 hours ago||
There literally are og electric vespas, I don't think they're great value for money but I guess people like the way they look. Then again, I'd rather see more of them in the city than loud motorcycles https://www.vespa.com/it_IT/modelli/primavera/primavera-elet...
timonoko 5 hours ago||
The horror that was aluminium engine. You could open and close a screw only twice and goodbye threads.
derefr 4 hours ago|
The trade-off being (I'm guessing) that those threads would be pretty easy to re-tap by hand?
dnemmers 4 hours ago||
I think the usual move once threads are gone, is to move to a steel threaded insert (helicoil, time-sert, etc)

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/thread-repair-inserts/thre...

convolvatron 39 minutes ago||
or go up a diameter if that's feasible.
bborud 2 hours ago||
Reading through the comments I somehow doubt that many have owned or ridden a Vespa that was built in the last 10 years or so.

I've had a 300cc Vespa GTS for a decade now (alongside a few motorcycles) and the thing that is the most striking about it is how relaxing it is to drive. Despite being somewhat heavy, they are very manoeuvrable due to the low center of gravity. The suspension is very good and despite the roads here being awful it just glides over any bumps and smooths them out. The 300cc engine is fairly quiet and provides more torque than you need. When the lights turn green you'll be over the intersection before the motorcyclists have had time to release the clutch and get going.

It does well on the open road too. It isn't a race machine, but it'll do 120km/h (75 mph) which is good enough. And you won't feel stiff and bent when you arrive if you decide to take it on a 6 hour ride.

I didn't get it for the looks/style. Yes, I did think it was a bit of a gimmick. And then I tried it. I thought I was doing 60/kmh when I was doing 80km/h. And it just glided over bumps.

(And yes, I have a motorcycle as well, but I'm European so it means I don't ride a motorcycle to get into road rage incidents. We actually try to get along here)

rconti 40 minutes ago||
I'm surprised the small diameter wheels allow for such a good ride.
bborud 27 minutes ago||
You're thinking about the stability? That's all down to very low center of gravity.
mulmen 22 minutes ago||
The 300GTS is amazing. It can do anything.

Split traffic on the way to the farmers market while getting waves from random people? Easy.

80mph up a hill on the way to the park? Also yes.

Ride through the park to set up a picnic? Not only yes but it literally has a built in cooler.

Just a total zero compromise vehicle.

And you can buy one for what five grand? All other motorcycles (which I have many of) are stupid.

amarcheschi 4 hours ago||
Piaggio also designed a car (well, more than one including bad prototypes), which unfortunately wasn't sold in italy due to a gentleman's agreement with fiat (fiat being much bigger basically went if you start selling cars, we'll build motorcycles). The English Wikipedia doesn't include this snippet of history, the Italian page does though https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACMA_Vespa_400
pmontra 4 hours ago|
Piaggio also designed the Ape (bee) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_Ape a 3 wheel tiny pickup. It was hugely popular, but of course not as much as the Vespa because of the smaller market. I still see some of them especially in country areas.
amarcheschi 4 hours ago||
Well in italy I definitely see a lot of them although they're not assembled here anymore

The funniest version is the presidential one gifted to the president of the republic in 2008 https://www.museopiaggio.it/it/collezioni/2-piaggio/57-ape-c...

Sam6late 2 hours ago||
I hated our Vespa when I was a kid in the seventies but their calendars were cool. You know that instinct you get when you're slowing down or coming to a stop, where you just want to stick your feet out for balance? Well, every time I did that, I felt like those sharp metal edges on the Vespa were just waiting to scrape my leg or catch my ankle. It wasn't a bike to me; it was a hazard on two wheels. So when the opportunity came to "borrow" it while my father was napping, I gladly handed the honor over to my brother. Off we went, buzzing through the dark to see the aftermath of an airstrike on an oil refinery at the edge of the city. It was pitch black out there, and before we knew it, we'd tipped right into a ditch on the side of the road. Panic was not because we were hurt, but because we were convinced our father would somehow know we'd taken his Vespa. Luckily, a few strangers happened to pass by and helped us haul the thing back up. You'd think we'd have learned our lesson, but soon after, I pulled a similar stunt, this time with our white Volkswagen.
bushwart 3 hours ago||
Vespas are fashionable and cute but the coolest thing on 2 wheels award goes to Simsons of all colors and stripes (2-stroke or electric, pick your poison). In Germany, the grandfathered 2-strokes are also the only way you can legally ride somethibg faster than 45 km/h on a moped license.
Lio 5 hours ago||
Timeless iconic Italian design.

I'm surprised that the article didn't mention the role Vespa (and Lambretta) played in the British Mod scene.

You can see it's influence in the RAF roundel stickers on bikes in the article.

For anyone interested Quadrophenia is still a fun introduction:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrophenia_(film)

elevaet 2 hours ago||
There's a culture for modding Vespas in Indonesia that I think HN folks would find interesing - check out "Vespa extreme"/"Vespa gembel" - sort of like if mad-max was in the jungle culture of chopping and rebuilding old Vespas into all sorts of wild road machines. Pretty interesting kind of hippie/punk subculture.
lazyant 2 hours ago|
> "The first ads for the Vespa featured a woman," said Sarra. "You could call it a kind of feminist design." Well, a big feature of the Vespa design is that, unlike other motorcycles, women (or Scottish men) can ride them with skirts. Surely that helped with their initial popularity.
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