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Posted by weli 12 hours ago

Half-Baked Product(weli.dev)
1049 points | 313 commentspage 2
move-on-by 7 hours ago|
I remember sitting in on a sales meeting early in my career. I kept quiet, but afterwards I complained to my manager that they were selling features that didn’t exist and conflicted with core concepts of the product. My manager told me that was how sales were made. I left the company not long after, I was already disgruntled prior to that discussion.

I’ve seen the same thing everywhere I go. I don’t have the disposition to be in sales, but I periodically daydream of making huge commissions by straight up bullshitting people. There seems to be no downside.

chasd00 7 hours ago||
I work in consulting and have been in many projects where the client was sold promises and features that don’t exist in reality. If I had a firm I would have a rule that whoever sells a project worth > $5M would also be responsible for delivering it.
_matt_ 7 hours ago||
And consequently, you'd most likely have no projects worth > $5M :)
germinalphrase 7 hours ago||
Or link sales commission to delivery success, and have no sales people...
estetlinus 2 hours ago|||
How is that company doing today?

I think there’s a balance to it. You have to meet the customer, and also understand your boundaries. I’ve sold non-existent features that I was unsure if I could deliver, but always solved it since I’m good at smooth talking. I’ll make sure what I deliver brings value, and keep a dialogue with the client. Sales relations are rarely static from my experience.

dolebirchwood 3 hours ago|||
I was doing contract work last year for a young solo founder, and he promised a feature to a big customer who only signed up because of this one feature. It was a feature he vibecoded and was able to demo in ways that made it look like it was working, when in reality it was a buggy POS. The customer was going to go live on the platform in a few weeks, and this kid expected me to work over my pre-planned holiday to actually get this (frankly rather complex) feature built properly. I told him good luck, ended the contract, and enjoyed my holiday. No time for that BS.
DANmode 6 hours ago||
> There seems to be no downside.

If you don’t see the value of your own word, I can’t give it back to you.

move-on-by 1 hour ago||
This is just one of the many reasons I don't have the disposition to be in sales
SaltyAstronaut 1 hour ago||
We get so obsessed with shipping shiny features for the next pitch deck that we forget the oven actually needs to bake bread.
icegreentea2 4 hours ago||
I like this part:

The founder gets angry. He promised the VCs 10% of Spain’s oven market. The entire market. “We can’t sacrifice any of them.”

It’s not just greed. The 5 million was raised with the entire market on the slide. The founder isn’t choosing between right and wrong: he’s choosing which promise to break.

I wonder what the author had in mind when he wrote "which promise to break". Is the founder thinking about his promises to the VCs? Or thinking between the VC and customers?

I think this is the most human moment of the entire story. Everything else is pretty standard tropes (and just like everyone in this chain, these tropes ring very very true). They're almost systemic issues.

But this is a moment where the one person who is supposed to actually have agency (the founder!) actually has a choice. I don't want to nitpick the technicalities of the choice (it seems pretty straightforward to me that getting to 10% of total market would more than justify multiple product lines), but the psychology here.

Why is the founder uncomfortable breaking promises to investors, but more comfortable selling a garbage product? Is he just hopeful?

rdbl27 4 hours ago|
He's coldly rational:

The investors gave him $5 million. Large commitment, large risk.

Each customer gives him 15k per unit. Even a rare large customer who buys 100 ovens gives him 150k. Small commitment, small risk.

If he breaks his promise to the investors, he can't raise more money easily. It will be very hard to find another $5 million.

If he breaks his promise to the customers with a garbage product, he can more easily find a replacement customer for the much smaller risk.

icegreentea2 2 hours ago||
From a rational standpoint, I don't understand how investors could feel betrayed by a pivot that involves creating two ovens to eventually allow the founder to capture 10% of the market. Functionally, I can't imagine a single investor actually caring about these details. They don't care about the number of buttons, or if it can do wedding cakes, or whatever. They care that the founder and team demonstrates competence in their decision making and execution.

If a founder is able to spin and control both the loss of a major potential customer, and the low customer satisfaction rate (weak follow up from pilots) to the investors, I simply cannot imagine that doing 2 product lines is that much of a big deal.

More personally, I'd feel that if it truly were a coldly rational decision, the founder would feel confident in defending his choices (at least against any initial suggestions to the contrary) without resorting to anger.

avsn 9 hours ago||
Too close to the home, ouch. It’s such a microcosm of things. I can imagine people reading this going “ah, the founder was right, it’s those damn nerds” or “at least WE generated sales” and so on. The more you do startups the more it seems that the time is indeed a flat circle.
Karthick81 2 hours ago||
The best tools/businesses are coming from domain experts who vibecode, not anyone who can vibecode — because the ones who are not from that domain have not really experienced the painpoints to know what the industry needs, even when they work with a dev team requirements get lost in translation.

The catch: domain experts don't know what they don't know about shipping. The fix — vibecoders build it, dev team hardens it for production.

sumitkumar 2 hours ago|
Can you please give some examples of the best tools/businesses which are being built like this? Genuinely curious. I know the vibe tech is really good but I don't know of any upstarts using it, everyone cool is building/distributing the vibe tech. There are some games/copycats but nothing production grade in my radar.
gherkinnn 8 hours ago||
> A month later, Mario leaves the company. [...] In the retro, it gets written down as a “learning.”

That hurts and exemplifies everything I hate about the industry. Humans lost on a Kanban board, abstracted away and covered in business speak.

hitekker 7 hours ago||
> When he gets home at night, he argues for hours on Italian forums about which type of oven is best. The Italian forums are, to him, the ultimate source of oven-truth.

This detail, among several others, is subtle but deeply fateful.

anonu 7 hours ago||
> When Everything Is Urgent, Nothing Is

The most resonant line for me. This line for me is about how good project management meets team culture. You want a high performant team: one that remains focused and motivated - but the goals are carrots, not sticks.

mdavid626 2 hours ago||
It’s very simple. Everbody just wants to make money.

Startups have nothing to do with innovation or making the world a better place.

It feels like it’s about creating the bubble, inflating it and cashing out before it bursts.

notatoad 2 hours ago|
I don’t think that’s true. Some people really do have product ideas that they want to share with the world.

The problem is that those people are really bad at making money, and have a hard time competing with the people whose motivation is money.

emilsayahi 2 hours ago|
The mistake was when they didn't just switch to selling two types of dough. They had a genuine innovation and should've squeezed as much juice out of that and moved on to finding some other innovation. You don't need to build exactly what you described to your first investors, you just need to build a valuable business for them.
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