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Posted by weli 19 hours ago

Half-Baked Product(weli.dev)
1208 points | 369 commentspage 7
shahzaibmushtaq 14 hours ago|
The founder should have visited China's oven manufacturing market/industry after raising 5 million. This could have solved their first major client Pepepizza feature problem.
vjsrinivas 16 hours ago||
Great story. Reminded me what my professional nightmare would look like. But, I think at the end it started to thin out its allegorical premise when it started including SWE terms like Kanban and retros.
lilerjee 14 hours ago||
Interesting story. This seems a true story of the author? The author understands the characters of the people in the process of business. Understanding reality is not easy.
weli 14 hours ago|
Not a situation that happened to me per se. More of a mix of situations that have happened to me and I've seen happen to people close to me aggregated into a single metaphor.
rpdillon 14 hours ago|||
I've been working in startups since 2012 and this was a superbly crafted narrative that articulates so many of the odd circumstances that lead to inscrutable decisions in early stage companies...really well done!
orliesaurus 14 hours ago|||
Amazing job writing this up!
nilirl 13 hours ago||
Honest question: Does the founder end up making money this way? Can you really get rich building a failed business?
jppope 11 hours ago||
Totally depends.

Lots of people assume that the valuable thing is the direct business, but a business can be a lot more than that. A competitor may buy you for your engineers or sales team or patents, or assets, or whatever (e.g. Siri, Motorola, etc)... and just toss the rest of the business or sell that stuff off after they have what they want. In other industries they may just buy companies for their assets. Also you never know what will happen with a pivot (e.g. twitter, slack, etc).

The bleak reality is if you can keep growing (making more money than you spend) that alone is usually desirable enough for people to keep giving you money and eventually provide an exit. Why? because it's really hard to do. Its a skill.

metalrain 12 hours ago||
Usually no.

And I have to say that no one tries to build a failed business. Founders can be really earnest about their intentions, work harder when they see the cracks, but often it just doesn't work, they don't find the right way before it's too late.

Maybe just before the end someone tries to siphon the funds into private account or assets into their next venture, but you tend to get caught doing so.

breadsniffer 10 hours ago||
Why do I feel like this is the story of the average B2B SaaS YC startup?
Mizza 17 hours ago||
Ouch, that hits close to home, and it seems like it does for a lot of others out there as well.

So what's the solution? Is there a playbook that avoids these pitfalls, or is it just the cost of the spin. Ideally, something early engineers can point to when we see non-technical founders falling into familiar traps.

brickers 15 hours ago||
My personal take:

- you need aligned incentives across the board. Sales and accounts mustn’t promise what the company can’t deliver

- people need to defend their area of expertise whilst listening to what others are saying about theirs. For me this boils down to a division between technical and business focussed. Techies need to push for non-client facing technical improvements without making everyone ignore them every time they say “technical debt”, and they need to accept that sometimes you just build shit to get business through the books. Sales/accounts need to accept that sometimes the build budget is taken up with mysterious technical drives that will be worth it. When I say “must accept” I mean accept that it must happen some percentage of the time - each case still needs to be backed up by a business case.

- ultimately this needs to come from the top - founder(s) must balance these facts and drive it through the whole organisation, and in the article they didn’t

8b16380d 8 hours ago||
Have you ever been in a situation where this was the case? The only time I've come close, the business was a dog.
weli 16 hours ago|||
If someone has the answer I'd like to know as well. I think the most important question to ask yourself is: Where did the story go sideways? At what point what character could have prevented the disaster?

For me there is no right answer. Maybe the engineer should have been more pushy with what things not to add. Maybe the founder entrepreneur should have been realistic. Maybe sales should have not had to promise things that were not developed yet. But to each of those there is a counter-argument of why that needed to be done in that moment.

Take it as a mental exercise.

lelanthran 15 hours ago|||
> Where did the story go sideways?

When they didn't iterate on PMF with a niche client.

groundzeros2015 14 hours ago||||
A lot of these things are just inexperienced management:

- not understanding sales and properly incentivizing them

- attacking only urgent problems (urgent vs important matrix)

- not taking constraints expressed by domain experts as real. (Big companies are actually good at this.)

dijksterhuis 15 hours ago|||
> Where did the story go sideways? At what point what character could have prevented the disaster?

for me the company should never have existed in the first place. and that lies with the founder. starts with them. falls on them.

i'm biased i suppose because my part in the "10%" part of my story was finding out just how little research anyone actually did... they all just wanted to play the role of important businessmen, big brain dev, co-founder etc. etc.

thank you for writing this. i'm still trying to come back from crashing and burning at that place. i might read this a few more times as it felt like my story too. the another Engineer part touched me. that's who i was in my story. it hurt.

edit -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48774444 hits the nail on the head with their last bullet point. bad leadership innit.

groundzeros2015 14 hours ago||
> just how little research anyone actually did

More often I see the opposite. 100 page pdfs that fall apart in first contact with reality.

I think it’s not about research, but it’s very hard to contribute in a field you haven’t actually had a career in.

dijksterhuis 14 hours ago||
yeah i'd agree with you there with lack of experience. and that was definitely a thing at my place. i think it plays a part in the research stuff too. cos if without relevant experience a lot of bad assumptions get made.

"FOSS is universally unreliable" was one of such assumptions i had to push back against 5 years later. they meant academica produced software. but they assumed all foss is the same as all academica produced software.

adithyaharish 17 hours ago||
[flagged]
z3ugma 12 hours ago||
This is like a punch in the gut. Holy buckets. How do you prevent this? Bootstrap?
metalrain 12 hours ago|
Only functional startups I've seen solve actual customer problem and don't try to solve all problems. Usually they have tried several things before they found one that actually is worth solving.

But everyone makes mistakes and bad deals in product development or they go out of business.

pradeeproark 11 hours ago||
Can’t say this is fiction or non-fiction. Totally depressing. Too good.
SaltyAstronaut 9 hours ago||
We get so obsessed with shipping shiny features for the next pitch deck that we forget the oven actually needs to bake bread.
rdiddly 12 hours ago|
This was exquisitely cringe-laden and I think I may be the Luigi figure
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