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Posted by systima 6 hours ago

Claude Code sends 33k tokens before reading the prompt; OpenCode sends 7k(systima.ai)
This started based off of a hunch. We usually use OpenCode, but were 'forced' to use Claude Code for a while due to issues with Meridian. In that time, we saw the usage meter rise much, much more quickly than when using OpenCode.

This was the initial anecdotal evidence, but we undertook this small study to collect empirical data:

We added logging between the agentic coding tool (Claude Code and OpenCode) and Anthropic's endpoint, and captured all requests (and the returned usage blocks).

With one caveat (toward the end of the post) we found unambiguously that Claude Code was far more inefficient in terms of its cache strategy and its harness token usage than OpenCode.

415 points | 231 commentspage 3
cbility 2 hours ago|
I recently started using cline instead of opencode and prefer the interface. I'm interested if anyone here here has any arguments for opencode or codex over cline?
syntaxing 5 hours ago||
The reasoning built into the models matter so much too. I recently swapped my Qwen3.6 27B to ThinkingLabs’ fine tune and it does what it publishes. I cut my token usage in half, which is a big deal since I only get ~20 TPS for token generation.
temp7000 3 hours ago||
But Claude Code in my experience results in more tool calling for smart efficient file reading. Meanwhile Opencode pulled an entire 500kb file (GPU assembly dump) at once. Kilo is better than both, as it uses indexing.
anonu 4 hours ago||
This is all heading in the right direction. Much of AI coding feels magical. But when the costs begin to accrue we start asking questions. We dig into it and try to understand what's going on. I can't help but feel Anthropic is "token maxing" from its side: it controls the levers and with every version upgrade it can build in its own token growth almost unbeknownst to the user. This actually harms it on the long run because it necessitates a cheaper option.
andai 5 hours ago||
With Fable being per token instead of on the subs (unless they changed it again?), I decided to test Claude code on OpenRouter where I had some credits, with Opus 4.8 and Fable 5.

I asked both a trivial question (summarize last commit). Opus cost 50 cents, Fable about $1.

That checks out because Fable's twice as much in the API (though I think its emphasis on correctness makes the difference larger for bigger tasks).

But, at $1 per question, I think I will stick to the subscription for now! I was certainly glad GPT-5.6-Sol is included in OpenAI's subscription, and I'm curious if they'll be able to do the same for GPT-6.

All the VC money appears to have run out a few weeks ago.

andai 5 hours ago||
As for context size and harnesses I did make a trivial bash agent based on this "agent in 50 lines" tutorial[0] recently, and found that for trivial work, it was about an order of magnitude cheaper and faster.

I haven't tested it on anything bigger but it doesn't seem to do the kind of proactive testing, that they do in bigger harnesses.

Codex at least has a system prompt that tells it not to consider a feature a complete until it has verified it. I'm not sure about Claude Code.

I suppose I could add that one line to the prompt, and it would get me much closer to agi :) I think Fable does this proactively even without a prompt, but I haven't tested that yet.

If Fable in my own harness is significantly cheaper than Claude Code, that would be very appealing. (I could actually afford to use it for most things!) But I think most of the cost comes from the testing it does. So we'll have to see.

[0] https://minimal-agent.com/

llm_nerd 5 hours ago||
Fable's subscription inclusion theoretically ends EOD today. Anthropic put a wishy-washy "if we have capacity we'll continue it" thing, and given how competitive GPT 5.6 Sol is, and it is included in OpenAI's subscription, I fully expect Anthropic to extend Fable or they will have a serious exodus on their hands.

Competition is good.

SyneRyder 5 hours ago||
Anthropic have extended Fable access again to July 19. The notice should pop up in your Claude Code now when you start a new session (also announced on the ClaudeDevs X account first).
erikus 4 hours ago||
Ah, thanks. It's been hard to plan around these last-minute changes. I rushed to implementation on a spec I should have spent more time on because of the looming deadline.
docheinestages 5 hours ago||
I've been trying various harnesses like Pi, OpenCode, Qwen Code, and Nanocoder. A common problem I keep running into is failed tool calls, regardless of the model. What is the best harness and on-device model combination right now?
arjie 3 hours ago||
I have just re-analysed most common failed tool-calls and adjusted the tool so that it works. I have a manual repair step on failure that programmatically attempts to fix some things. On failure, the harness reports the error, the repaired function, and the result. Overall, seems to work fine. But it's very model-specific. Most commonly the model fails on shell commands where it hallucinates some programs. If it does it often enough, I just promote those to commands in the PATH. Over time, it has happened less.
wolttam 5 hours ago|||
> and on-device model combination right now

That would depend entirely on what your device is. This sounds likely not to be an issue with the harness, but the capabilities of the models you've tried.

I experience almost no tool call failure using my nothing-special harness and DSv4 Flash.

docheinestages 4 hours ago||
I'm looking for something that runs on an M5 Macbook Pro with 48 GB of unified memory.
arcanemachiner 5 hours ago|||
You can't afford the best model. What are your specs and what models + quants have you tried?

Qwen 3.6 35B A3B and Qwen 3.6 27B can both do reliable tool calls on Pi at Q4_K_M using llama.cpp

docheinestages 4 hours ago||
I'm on a 48 GB M5 Macbook Pro. I use 4-bit quants with a context window of 16-32k. I tried Qwen 3.6 27B, but I can only get around 10 tokens per second, but it's painfully slow, and it often fails during `write_file` tool calls, even with Qwen Code.
ac29 2 hours ago||
Try an 8 bit quant of Qwen 35B, but temper your expectations. Those Qwen 3.6 models are impressive for the size, but you need an order of magnitude more parameters to actually be useful for more than trivial work in my opinion.
yearolinuxdsktp 4 hours ago||
Pi.dev requires some plugins to work well. Using Qwen3.6-27B/35B locally at Q8, I was quite frustrated with failed tool calls and tried many things.

Ultimately this combo worked:

1. https://pi.dev/packages/pi-tool-guard —- corrects key name synonyms and common structure errors, so tool calls succeed automatically (e.g if the model hallucinates old_str instead of oldText). It also wraps top level oldText/newText in an edits array if the tool didn’t do it.

2. https://pi.dev/packages/@aboutlo/pi-smart-edit - white-space-tolerant edits, as Qwen would sometimes add a fifth space to a four space indent

Hashline edit tools didn’t work well for me at all, they confused the model and it still failed to edit correctly. Also line removals would invalidate the rest of the file requiring re-reads. I tried pi-hashline-edit-pro, though I see it now keeps a database of hashes to help keep them stable across edits. Regardless Qwen kept thinking that the hashline prefixes were part of the source.

clutter55561 4 hours ago||
Claude Code is not just a harness. It is a different product. You pick the smallest subscription that allows you to do your work. My “multiplier” on a $100 subscription is 5+.

If you’re using API, on the other hand, there is absolutely no reason to use Claude Code, or Codex.

stuaxo 3 hours ago||
Why don't we have some equivalent of "fork" if we are talking the same context and tokens, you'd think that could all just be loaded into the gpu.
ricardobeat 3 hours ago|
OpenCode, Crush and Pi do have the ability to fork a conversation. But cache reuse is up to the provider and not guaranteed. At some point you need to forward the cache to a more recent checkpoint, and you have a finite (unknown) number of parallel cached chats.
alansaber 3 hours ago||
Nothing about the time taken to complete the task? Users are definitely sensitive to time, not only token consumption.
cesarvarela 4 hours ago|
I think this doesn't mean much; the axes that matter are intelligence x dollars x time; tokens by themselves mean nothing.
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