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Posted by roundabout-host 13 hours ago

European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS(github.com)
398 points | 271 commentspage 2
kubo6472 12 hours ago|
Yeah, I am leaning towards never to use anything that is forced to implement any kind of age verification.
dheera 6 hours ago||
You won't be able to see a doctor when you're sick.

You won't be able to open a bank account to receive your salary.

You won't be able to buy train or plane tickets.

My point is I am most worried that these kind of "digital verification" type things most impact actual necessities. The social media I couldn't care less about. "I just won't use it" isn't really a solution.

toasty228 5 hours ago||
You already can't do any of these things without some kind of governmental issued ID which already has your birthdate on it.

idk why people are so scared of it, do you really believe they don't know what you do on your personal internet connection linked to your name and payment data ?

Like yeah sure if you pay everything in cash and never use internet OK that's a big problem, but for the average HN shitposter who's already terminally online it really doesn't change much

rcbdev 4 hours ago|||
> do you really believe they don't know what you do on your personal internet connection linked to your name and payment data?

Many people in the Western Europe used, until very recently, prepaid anonymous mobile data cards that they recharged monthly with charging vouchers paid for in cash.

All this ended in the last 5 - 10 years. The U.S.-American corporate glass citizen slave mentality is actually a little tad bit new here, thus the outrage.

watwut 1 hour ago||
You have it other way round. USA had burner anonymous cards when European countries did not.
fsflover 4 hours ago|||
> You already can't do any of these things without some kind of governmental issued ID which already has your birthdate on it.

Do you have to present this ID for every purchase you make or every website you visit? Will it be stored and processed by every shop you enter? If not, how is this relevant here? Currently, the personal data exists but is not accessed by anyone unless it is really required. And even then, the scope can be minimized if the user wants.

> do you really believe they don't know what you do on your personal internet connection linked to your name and payment data ?

Yes. I use Whonix on Qubes to access HN and other websites.

> but for the average HN shitposter who's already terminally online it really doesn't change much

Speak for yourself.

toasty228 4 hours ago||
> Do you have to present this ID for every purchase you make or every website you visit?

Basically yes, your mobile connection is attached to a name, your landline is attached to a name, your adresse too, the card you use to pay online too.

rcbdev 4 hours ago|||
That is totally incorrect for many parts of Europe. Pre-paid anonymous sim cards were used by the majority of mobile users until very recently.
fsflover 4 hours ago|||
Websites do not have access to any of these, do they?
toasty228 4 hours ago||
Well yeah, and that's why we use a third party app instead of having each website implement their own half assed solutions. That's like the entire point of this thing...
shevy-java 12 hours ago||
Well, they could change the laws to force people into slavery here, e. g. by forcing them to use US corporations ("if you do not have an app from Google store, you are excluded from society"). In that case they see age sniffing as ultimate tool of spying on everyone, so this is probably the real goal. What we all can see is that this has never been about children - they are just abused as the red hering here.
trashb 12 hours ago||
> "if you do not have an app from Google store, you are excluded from society"

It would be a difficult choice but would it really be so bad to be excluded from such a society? Don't a lot of people from silicon valley dream to be farmers in the wildlands?

snottynose 11 hours ago|||
I mean, if the government would not demolish your house the second they found out about it...
Anoian 12 hours ago|||
[dead]
singingtoday 3 hours ago||
I would never do this verification with my real face, and neither should anybody else. Kids get around this using video game character creators. You can too.

As a netizen it's your duty to avoid, oppose, and circumvent anything that forces you to use your real identity.

Erikun 12 hours ago||
Im confused, the github discussion says that the README says

App and device verification based on Google Play Integrity API and Apple App Attestation

But I can't find that anywhere. Am I missing something?

Deukhoofd 1 hour ago||
This entire issue is a disaster of a Github issue. It looks like its on the entirely wrong repository. I did eventually find the text in another repository; the one for the Android reference implementation: https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-app-android...

It was removed from there to clarify the entire "Hey, this application is not done yet"

It being in the reference implementation instead of the spec is a massive difference. One means that it's just there to show an example, and we should push national governments to do it better in their implementations, while the other would mean that it'd be a requirement for all implementations, which it doesn't appear to be.

It also looks like the reference implementation removed that functionality entirely several months ago: https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-app-android...

roundabout-host 11 hours ago|||
It used to say that, it was removed as a PR measure, while in practice the national implementations (as you do not use this app, but a national one) require it, because the specification only mandates Android/iOS versions to be provided (it allows others, but no government will do so), and it does not mandate them not to have "attestation".
trashb 11 hours ago|||
From what I can gather from the linked discussion it was started as a pull request or a issue and was transferred to a discussion later. Perhaps some data was lost there? If you expand the comments fully there is also mention of a nuked merge request, I assume it was related to this text.

Edit it was not visible from the discussion link but it is visible from the issue link below. Also it seems to be transferred over from a totally different repo?

https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-doc-technic...

perching_aix 11 hours ago||
> Am I missing something?

Yes, that this post is propaganda.

sschueller 12 hours ago||
Two platforms that are not owned by companies in the EU. Effectively handing the keys to your state ID to private foreign enterprise.

What will you do when Apple/Google or the US Government effective immediately delete/block your app? The impact initially may be small but after a few years if widely used, you can break a country.

Scaled 12 hours ago||
Another juicy threat vector is forcing the app stores to stealthily ship a modified version of the app that sends copies of the IDs and/or tracking data to US intelligence services.

(Reminder: we know Persona's verification software already shares verification data with the federal government. It's a leap to modifying other apps, but within the realm of possibility of US government power. There is absolutely desire from them to gather blackmail material on politically important people, and age verification systems connected to adult sites/apps are a great way to do it)

roundabout-host 11 hours ago||
This is a problem, but not the only one. The biggest one is that the phones in question are locked and deny user freedom. I would not be content with an European "alternative", but which is as locked as iOS.
amelius 12 hours ago||
Isn't there a niche platform that can sue the hell out of the EU here?
fsflover 6 hours ago|
Perhaps https://fsfe.org or https://edri.org can do that.
g-b-r 12 hours ago||
It should be stressed that Play Integrity also requires having a Google account and logging in to it on the phone.
ozlikethewizard 11 hours ago||
This is even more than just android, I'm sure there are plenty of us using AOSP forks that do not have google services installed. I think the EU will overturn this with enough noise though. Hopefully the UK doesn't do the same, I've avoided having to root my phone so far and would like to keep it that way if possible.
butz 4 hours ago||
Your app should've been a website.
sebastianconcpt 11 hours ago||
The issue is not the issue, the issue is what their "solution" enables for expanding the surface that governments have for controlling details of how you live your life in the future once accepted.
TacticalCoder 2 hours ago|
> European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

As a european if I wanted to see the glass half-full I'd say: at least the good news is that from that headline we can name a gigantic loser... Microsoft.

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