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Posted by shintoist 12 hours ago

How to stop Claude from saying load-bearing(jola.dev)
396 points | 454 commentspage 4
kristjansson 9 hours ago|
Among all the claude-isms, i understand the hate for load-bearing the least. It was definitely part of tech argot prior to the LLM revolution.
kesor 8 hours ago||
Maybe in the circles you circled in ... where I am from, I never had anyone saying "belt-and-suspenders" or "load-bearing" or "boil the ocean" or "swing for the fences" when talking about engineering topics. The only one who I heard say "circle-back to you" was Psaki.
Sharlin 8 hours ago|||
Well, "load-bearing" is specifically an engineering term :D Actual engineering, not software "engineering".
mceachen 8 hours ago|||
All of those phrases I've heard actively used even a decade (or two) ago. (I actually had to read your comment twice because I thought you were saying always, not never!)

"Critical path" and "long pole in tent" didn't make it into the model training data, but those were certainly also in play incessantly.

But they're all reasonably useful descriptions for common things, so I'm not surprised.

moffkalast 6 hours ago||
"That's fair."
ceejayoz 7 hours ago||
My CLAUDE.md has "don't talk like a Hacker News commentator". It helps a surprising amount.
yetanotherjosh 9 hours ago||
The real problem is not terms like "load-bearing," which communicate clearly enough. It's the constant invention of cryptic shorthand terms and phrases that have no referent, and end up acting like a puzzle to be decoded. This is often paired with hyphenation, but not always:

"The current behavior paper" -> The behavior in the running system that was previously described as papered over.

"Marker transport over-claim" -> The inaccurate review finding on the object's sentinel flag in the API response.

I suppose the cryptic/invented language problem is about token efficiency? But this sort of token efficiency is extremely difficult to deal with when it comes to conversation with a human about complex system. It might be efficient inside reasoning blocks, but when the model generates the final turn text, it should avoid this, as it's brutally inefficient due to the time spent wondering what each uniquely coined phrase means and having to ask for constant clarifications, which then you have to wait for another turn, eating up time and context while it burns more xhigh reasoning just thinking about how to explain its own awful language.

huem0n 4 hours ago||
You're absolutely right to flag this. We could enhance the authors approach by adding a belt-and-suspenders system using Claude.md as ledger and robust sidecar process to create a load-bearing idempotent production-ready system. The comments here provide a smoking gun and sharpens my previous conclusions. I'll get started on a quick smoke-test and let you know when it's landed.

Want me to take a first pass looking at other surfaces this vocabulary change could effect? Or would you like me to find other methods of reducing my vernacular to more terms that are more concise rather than verbose.

ianmurrays 7 hours ago||
I have this exact problem with 4.8 and Fable. Sometimes I can barely understand what it’s saying. I’m no english first-language speaker, but I don’t consider myself bad at English either, and it’s gotten increasingly hard to understand Claude’s claims and explanations.
Terretta 2 hours ago|||
I hope it's actually talking to itself at higher bandwidth, and hope this is because of training that succeeds better given quality inter-agent communication.

For those who care to read everything rather than walk away, Fable can be extraordinarily dense. I suspect they'll pull the promo before I learn to read it.

Still, I feel I must read rather than correct it, as results are that much better if I let it do this "with" itself: orchestrator to agents back to orchestrator.

nextzck 7 hours ago|||
Take it to sonnet 5 or gpt and ask it to explain this to a layman. If you still don’t get it ask it for the why it matters or the how it relates.

You can also ask fable/4.8 to do it but I find it helps to keep the working model surrounded by the complexity rather than drawing it out. Simplifying text is something that takes relatively low effort in comparison to technical tasks. Sometimes I use Gemini, deepseek, grok, and recently meta just to see if they have any added perspectives, sometimes they do. Meta is really good at turning a technical mess into a story that paints a picture in my head.

btbuildem 4 hours ago||
I've put a few lines in my CLAUDE.md to have it not do that, and avoid the top tedious rhetorical devices (super helpful when I have it write documentation). Still fighting with its natural tendency to insanely overcomplicate everything, that one seems really integral somehow.
utilize1808 3 hours ago||
I just use a ban list in CLAUDE.md: fold, crux, invariant, gate. I find "load-bearing" can be load-bearing so it's exempted.
Terretta 2 hours ago|
WTH is a "fold"?

I think Claude means something like map-reduced or at least a functionally derived series of some kind?

Anything with series data sounds like a laundromat.

shawnz 7 hours ago||
I confess I have instructions in my CLAUDE.md to avoid such cliches. But I think it's important to consider that we don't really know what subtext an LLM is associating with a given idiom/analogy/etc. It could be much different than the subtext a human would associate with that choice of words, conveying additional details which are only meaningful to the LLM itself. So impeding its ability to talk in the manner it prefers could subtly hinder its performance.
huem0n 5 hours ago||
You're absolutely right to flag this. A approach using Claude.md as a ledger of less-than-ideal vocabulary reveals that the process is load-bearing and sharpens my previous conclusions. A belt-and-suspependers approach using a hook as a sidecar would honestly be a more production-ready approach. I'll get started on a quick smoke-test and let you know when it's landed.

...

Want me to take a first pass looking at other surfaces this vocabulary change could effect?

alwa 7 hours ago||
[dead]
iainmerrick 6 hours ago||
Honestly? I don't really mind, and I even quite like it!

The thing is, "load-bearing" is a useful phrase when discussing architecture. What would you rather have it say, that has all the same nuances in as few words?

It's kind of like those sports metaphors that often get used in management-speak, like sending some important email "at close of play". Sure, they can sound a bit weird, but they're often useful -- they capture common concepts in a clear and pithy way.

Jargon isn't always just for obfuscation, good jargon exists because we needed a short word for the complicated thing that frequently comes up.

Usefulness aside, I quite like that Claude Code and other LLMs have their own weird way of speaking. Back in the day we always imagined robots and computers would talk like HAL or Spock; turns out that they talk more like Troi instead. Is that so bad? It reminds you that you're talking to an LLM, and as long as you're not lazy, it spurs you to rephrase things in your own words.

binarymax 7 hours ago||
It's not a whatchamacallit, it's a spicy doodad
pugio 12 hours ago||
I wrote a thing about exactly this, but I'm resistant to blogging for undefined reasons so, maybe this will help someone...

# AI speech is an Infohazard

Apart from all its other possible boons and ills, one danger of AI is just that it is useful, so you use it. A lot.

In earlier days I would dive deeply into an author's work and start to think and write like them for a while. It was a heady feeling: slinging sonnets like Shakespeare—not at his level, but stylistically reminiscent—or tweaking turns like Twain.

Like all things, the effect lasts in relation to how long and how much you do it. The point is: our thinking is influenced by what we take in. Take more of a certain thing in, think more like that thing.

Now enter AI. My hand-crafted coding days are in their twilight months ("AI years"), and most of my software engineering is done through jaggedly capable agentic power tools. Instead of working directly with raw codestuff, I work with slop prose flecked with code sprinkles.

I read orders of magnitude more AI-speak—I call it "babble", or perhaps "Babel"—than human-written text. I can feel its genuinely honest points, clearly stated, slipping their banal tendrils into my thoughts and inner monologue.

Solutions? For me:

1. Be aware. "I notice that my thought stream is under assault."

2. Read stuff far from slop. Even a small dose of the good stuff can help inoculate. Recently I thought On the Calculation of Volume was something completely different.

3. Write stuff that is different. This post. Force the mind to synthesize thoughts in other ways.

4. debabel.py / debabel.js: a tool, and a pi extension, which filters common babble from visible LLM output. A lint for mind-killing prose.

It is not perfect, but it 80/20s nicely. I am willing to accept mildly awkward prose to avoid polluting my own internal distributions.

Details and example in the first comment. Tool available upon request.

pugio 12 hours ago|
References:

Information hazard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_hazard

Babel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel

On the Calculation of Volume: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Calculation_of_Volume

The revenge of NLP

The tool uses good old-fashioned regex/NLP—no LLMs—and rewrites the visible LLM Markdown without touching files on disk. I made it by analysing 10M+ words of past pi transcripts, doing frequency and pattern analysis, and iterating on rules to strip out the most egregious sloperisms. Now the circle is complete.

BEFORE

"Honestly, you're absolutely right—and that's a great question. Let me be clear: the fact that the parser works at all is actually quite remarkable. We utilize the tokenizer in order to handle the majority of edge cases, and due to the fact that it's recursive, it processes a large number of inputs. It's worth noting that this isn't really a bug—it's genuinely a deliberate design choice. In terms of raw throughput, the cache is significantly faster, and I think we should simply ship it.

That said, at the end of the day, not only is the design correct, but it is also fast. In other words, prior to refactoring, we should clearly delve into the nuanced, robust architecture. In conclusion, this is a testament to the seamless, intricate work the team has done."

AFTER

"That's a great question. That the parser works at all is remarkable. We use the tokenizer to handle most edge cases, and because it's recursive, it processes many inputs. This is a deliberate design choice. For raw throughput, the cache is faster, and we should ship it.

Not only is the design correct, but it is also fast. Before refactoring, we should delve into the nuanced, robust architecture. This is a testament to the seamless, intricate work the team has done."

pjc50 12 hours ago|||
I would add https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwel...

("It consists in gumming together long strips of words which have already been set in order by someone else, and making the results presentable by sheer humbug" -- Orwell predicts the LLM)

and also https://www.jstor.org/stable/25515288 "The Myles na gCopaleen Catechism of Cliché" itself is rather hard to find online, but he's a very funny writer so it's worth the effort.

lostlogin 12 hours ago||||
> Babel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel

I was hoping for a reference to the Babel Fish, whispering its translations in your ear.

ithkuil 10 hours ago||||
It's not clear to me whether that tool exists or you hallucinated it into existence with this post
iamjackg 8 hours ago|||
I'd love to see that tool.
plebianRube 4 hours ago|
'genuine(ly)' and 'honest(ly)' too.
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