Posted by ramon156 9 hours ago
> My goals for the end of 2027 are as follows:
> Stop making stupid mistakes. I want to be able to finish a task fully without missing or skipping a step. One way to do this is to make a plan for everything you do, and only do that thing. Nothing else.
HN comments are _NOT_ going to help debugging your mental state. People here have trouble agreeing on engineering, product and business practices they specialise in. They are _NOT_ going to guide you in the right direction on mental health topics.
Please OP, close HN, reach out to people, get help, and (importantly) learn to navigate your mind, not fight with it.
Nice paradox you've created there.
> People here have trouble agreeing on engineering, product and business practices they specialise in. They are _NOT_ going to guide you in the right direction on mental health topics.
I don't know that that follows logically. Whatever people they might reach out to in the real world -- be they friends, relatives, therapists -- also actually disagree about things and don't have all the answers. HN comments come from the same general pool of people, who also potentially have experiences and insights a like-minded individual might find valuable.
> You are not going to just build a better planning system one day.
No but you may be able to over time, through trial and error, and connecting with others and hearing about their experiences. I don't think there's anything wrong or unhealthy about exploring it in this fashion and I don't understand your choice of tone.
I do agree that setting a goal for the year of "not making stupid mistakes" is a (stupid?) mistake. It is more of a lifelong journey and process, of striving rather than achieving, and not setting unrealistic expectations for yourself.
It was initially some hn comment that convinced me that ADHD is not lazy people's excuse, but an actual thing (even if overhyped on some hn alternatives -- social media). And that led to a diagnosis after some time.
I was not planning on opening HN, but it has actually helped me :) I do have to admit I first asked a chat bot what the overall tone was before I opened it up myself.
Thank you very much, I needed to hear this.
Also very important, try to sleep the best you can and do exercise... I remember reading here about exercise in some cases exceeding the benefits of ADHD medications...
If you are overdosing things... don't... caffeine can be overdosed and the effects are nasty and lingering... caffeine is meant to be a zero sum game, where it gets you speed in the morning and when it wears off then you go to sleep... if you over dose it then you are making your body over exert and at some point the body will communicate the results via extreme tiredness, bad humor, etc...
Don't be hard on yourself, from everyone we are the most hard on ourselves when we should be the most kind of them all.
I know that's a very objective way of looking at it, I mean ofcourse volunteering is a good thing! But I wasn't sure if I was mentally prepared for it. I will definitely reach out to one nearby place that I know of.
Would you mind sharing what solutions they recommended for you to try? Also any meds?
Then you'd have people with symptoms, but who's life is not affected by them.
I wonder myself if it's just the first group that is classified as neurodivergent or both.
A rando that knows a little therapy language and has good intentions is dangerous. Turn and run.
Now, I am not trying to say there is nothing anyone can do to improve themselves or their situation, but I do find a lot of advice falls short. Common advice is to set reminders, make lists, etc.. However, none of that is helpful when one has to remember to even create/check the reminders, lists, etc.. I notoriously create to-do lists only to never look at them ever again.
Honestly, if I have learned anything in life, it is that I cannot be left to my own devices. I need lots of forced, external structure which makes me rather uncomfortable because I do not want to burden others with the responsibility of managing my disability.
Me as well, which is a really "fun" time when my specific blend of neurodivergence also causes me to immediately resent said authority and external structure and view it as removing my agency.
What I've learned as I've gotten older is just how much of our struggle comes down to our social model of disability. A lot of these "symptoms" are only disorders because we've built such rigid, uncompromising systems for interacting with and participating in society.
Modern psychology has a tendency to pathologize an individual's ability to conform to this rigidity instead of doing the hard work of promoting the building of flexible environments that are more accommodating of different ways of thinking and working. Instead, we work really hard to force a square peg into the round hole.
Its incredibly isolating, tbh.
It should just be about more deeply understanding ourselves as individuals, and understanding the world around us (particularly other people), so that we may navigate it better.
I saw a video of a comedian (a woman) doing crowd work, and kind of playfully bullying someone (a man), asking them about their therapy. I thought it was funny, but a lot of the comments were along the lines of "that's not cool, how dare you."
But that audience member was at a comedy club, where comics do that kind of thing. Going to therapy isn't about collectively making sure the world babysits and coddles everyones needs. It's about giving you the tools to handle what you can't change.
Edit: some people have replied saying why religion is helpful. Ok. But that doesn't answer my question of why is it showing up so much on HN lately.
I do sense the same thing you do, though; that there’s something of a religious revival swelling, at least in the West that’s overwhelmingly represented here:
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2025/10/20/growing-shar...
Economist via archive: https://archive.ph/M7NW0
If that means we should burn all the bibles I leave as an exercise for the reader.
That is contingent on actually believing in the religion, no? In my experiences, church attendees do not tend to take kindly to people attending with anterior motives.
When I was in school, I attended a few churches to meet new people. They were rather apprehensive when they learned I did not believe in any of it and was just faking it all.
You're there to learn. It's called Bible study for a reason.
When I came back to church after 10 years as an avowed agnostic/atheist I didn't believe. I did listen and pay attention a lot better than I did as a child. Listening with an open mind and an unhardened heart make a difference.
There are different types of churches too. In my experience most "mega churches" truly cater to this more curious audience. It's more of the movie going experience where you can walk in like anyone else, without having to know anybody, sit down and just listen to the service. Then get up and leave without talking to anybody if you don't want to. Messages tend to be tailored to the idea that any given week you're going to have people who have never set foot in a church before in life.
When I came back, I went to one of these for about 6 years (New Spring Church in South Carolina). Eventually, I wanted more and we switched to a more traditional church with Adult Sunday School and a men's (or women's) Bible study one night a week.
Churches are welcoming places but everybody there is going to be different. If you tell somebody you don't believe, some people are going to be thankful that you're there and others aren't going to have any idea what to say. That's pretty normal. Faking it is a little different though. No reason to fake it. Just be honest that you don't believe but you're here and willing to listen.
I’m pretty sure quite a few people who bring children to church don’t literally believe in the stuff themselves and just think the social elements and the morality are good for their children.
Were you trying to meet friends or trying to date though? If the latter I think it would feel a lot weirder.
Also if it bothers you to lie by omission I think one could come up with an explanation that wasn’t simply “I’m faking” and is more along the lines of “my grandparents were Christian and I think we lost something culturally when a lot of people stopped doing this” or something like that, assuming those are true for you. God is a metaphor, etc etc.
As arrogantly and incorrectly once thought in my youth, these people are not stupid. In my experiences, some, not all, can kind of pickup on it. It's usually a corroboration of mounting little slip-ups. Perhaps I am not a talented actor.
For example, I never grew up in any church systems, and the Christian bible is full of key characters and proper nouns. So, when I pronounced the name "Job" like a place of employment, it raised some eyebrows. How was I supposed to know lol?
> Were you trying to meet friends or trying to date though?
It depends on who I was interacting with. With the amount of testosterone pumping through my veins at the time, if I were interacting with an attractive female, you better believe I was trying to shoot my shot. Never caused any weirdness, but I absolutely agree it could.
> assuming those are true for you
Kind of. Half my family was nominally Christian, and the other half was persecuted and slaughtered by Christians.
I do appreciate you trying to assist in this endeavor though. I think you have made some fair points. I just wish churches were not one of the few remaining institutions for one to get this sense of community.
Which it might be, and it might not be—any more than we can conclude that the solution to “my throat hurts” is “take antibiotics.” (If it’s bacterial, that could cure it near-instantly; if it’s viral, it won’t do anything and might hurt in the aggregate)
In that analogy, to my thinking, church is maybe like “gargle some salt water”—the underlying biological processes may or may not be addressable by modern medicine, and you should probably talk to the doctor too—but the salt water may well make you feel better regardless.
And some people hate salt! More power to them! But I’m not coming at the folk remedy person for offering “have you thought about it.”
For that matter “church” can take many forms, even ostensibly secular ones. My raver friends, for example, speak of the dance floor as “church,” and think about it rather explicitly in terms of spiritual reconnection.
Sometimes the secular and the organized churches even cross paths…
Anyone can find a community nearby, churches aren't the only way.
Glad it worked out for you, but it doesn't for many people and that's okay. There are other communities out there.
Also Church is no substitute for mental health professions. Would you tell someone to "pray the cancer away?" I hope not, you'd tell then to speak to a qualified professional. That's where therapists, psychologists, psychiatrists, social workers, or even guidance councilers come into play.
This isn't accurate at all. Christian churches welcome everyone but there are no zoning laws directing people to specific churches. Many happen to be very homogeneous as a side effect of people often being more comfortable. There are numerous "black", "hispanic", "chinese", etc churches that are out there by perception but not by requirement. None of these churches are going to turn you away if you don't look like them anymore than a predominantly white church would.
Regarding women, I'm not sure what you've been reading to make that suggestion? There's probably no institution in the world that cares for women more than the Christian church. Strong families are part of the bedrock. Visit one on Mother's Day sometime. Check out the low cost and sometimes even free child care available (Mother's morning out, VBC, etc). Jesus treatment of women was radical in the context of the time period.
Glad you go to a good church, but some of them ain't that and refusing to believe this is extremely dishonest. Especially when people like Jerry Falwell had open disdain towards certain Americans right up to his death while having major influence with several US presidents.
> women bodily autonomy (being anti-abortion)
Pro-life has never been anti-women and this is a political hot button topic that isn't getting settled on HN. The conceived child has it's own life, it's own DNA and the goal is to protect that life. If the baby is a girl, then pro-life is the only real pro-woman stance. Churches also offer extensive support for mothers, single-mothers and their families.
> want to take away the right to vote from women
I have no response to this other than...what stuff are you reading on the internet? This is nonsense.
> openly attack children (yes attacking trans children is attacking children)
Nobody attacks children. This is not a church topic. Protecting children is a church topic. Children are innocent.
> believing the civil rights act was a mistake
Again, I have no idea what you're reading on the internet but this is not something that comes from church. I vaguely remember some political agitator in the last couple of years going viral for saying something to this regard and then it went away.
To all you downvoters Jesus is watching you and will send you to hell for it. -John 3:16
This means you need to see your strengths and understand how you are motivated and try to come up with ways of making the best use of those characteristics. There's no point feeling sad that you aren't X or Y. If you're Z then how can you make best use of Z?
I suggest that it's important to stop thinking that other people are idiots because this lack of tolerance or understanding of other people seems to extend to yourself. You have to understand and accept yourself as having flaws. Then you may see that other people are the same - their apparent idiocy always has reasons behind it and you should take some time to understand them even if you still don't agree with them.
I notice that depression is something I feel the ghost of when my image of myself is damaged by some real world situation. The only real solution to this is to stop thinking about yourself so much and think about other people more. Help people do what they want rather than what you want for a bit.
Also as someone else noted, bad family situations, relationships etc, create a lot of weight. Try to avoid people who make you sad and find ways to hang out with people who interest you enough that you forget about yourself for a while.
Probably a combination of those plus factors we aren't privy to.
I don't really know how to take the measure of a man and probably I'm not qualified to. I don't think he was evil though. People are complicated and not at all black and white.
Believe it or not, he was a pretty good academic at one point.
I get the impression (again, mostly my own experiences, projected onto you) from your intense "the problem has to be me" convictions that you're simultaneously dealing with a lot of self-loathing, and that this self-loathing fills a void of answers to existential questions that no other source in your life can. In other words, your depression has become a maladaptive coping strategy. And if that's so, then it's not a long shot until your maladaptive coping strategies evolve from, "the problem is me" into "the solution would be/will be/should be/is my own death."
I derive these warnings from these whiffs of absolute, impossible-to-change miseries you mention: "my mind is exploding, I'm not aware of what I'm doing anymore"; "tomorrow it'll be something else I screwed up"; "I'm the only one with these problems."
So, if you have a dark voice inside your head that promises change or absolution only in return for your own physical or emotional injury (perhaps dressed up as "discipline"), be forewarned: This voice is a cognitive illusion. It does not care about you. It will hold your head underwater until you drown, and still be unhappy.
On another note: I would agree with others that you would be a strong candidate for an autism assessment. Like you say with ADD, autism would not a root cause of anything, but it might help you understand your situation more intuitively if it is involved.
I'm doing alright as far as my career goes, not great, but okay. Which is disappointing because me and everyone around thought I'd do great, because I/they thought I was a great software developer, since I'm smart and I know my tech and my programming.
Unfortunately working as a software developer is a different story entirely, I found many times that my chase for good simple code takes time, and sometimes I overthink things and I don't test properly, and I'm also slow, and don't communicate the problem with my team because I don't work consistent hours, because my brain cannot do consistency.
Turns out I have ADHD. Possibly autism too. So I understand your feelings of I just need to be better, because it works for other right? Even tho you know that fundamentally you are right, but it works for others so why not you? I don't have a solution. But sometimes you can't just "be better" and "more consistent", I also wish I could, but maybe it's not possible.
Maybe the only way is to find where we are good and do more of that. If you have struggle finishing things hope on calls with people that are good at finishing things. Talk with them. Be proactive and be open. I also don't do this as often as I should, because I'm also ashamed.
I don't know exactly what the point was to this, but so you know others also fail, even tho they deemed smart and skilled by others.
My kids are like that - total blank slate joy machines at this age. And I assure you - fundamental optimism is ok everyone can improve their outlook and/or lot in life.
IDK why but one of the more damaging things about American culture is the constantly championing of individualism over community or belonging. Having one person you can talk to or spend quality time with is often enough and we should be encouraging more people to find their tribe.
My wife goes through negativity loops too, it hurts to see someone I love think so little of themselves but we're working through it together. That's life, we need to embrace it.
Something I have been struggling with all my life is deciding whether I am flawed in some way, or the other party/the environment is - because my immediate reaction is always to feel responsible and inadequate, and it takes a lot of energy of confidently feeling superior or right about something. Like, is it a pattern, or am I reflecting to avoid being ignorant?
There's no need to feel superior: that's not particularly helpful and will tend to give you a distorted perception of reality. Most likely you're just average.
One way is to define what you view as good (or better: define what you view as "better") and just be that as much as you can. Because "trying to actually be better" puts you above the median person immediately, IMHO
Why did you read the message and think of negative self talk? I'm just trying to learn more about your point of view.
I was just pointing out things where I struggle.
You just magically found this out when the Mental Health Diagnosis Fairy visited you one night? You spent thousands of dollars for a neuropsych evaluation where the result was 40% reality, 40% chance, and 20% how the evaluator was feeling that day? You self-diagnosed by reading Reddit threads? You somehow magically found the one psychiatrist who is willing to talk about ADHD without immediately assuming you're just trying to score some Ritalin to sell on the street? You got diagnosed by Dr. ChatGPT? What the actual fuck are you talking about? Everybody has ADHD, nobody has ADHD, who fucking knows? It's not possible that you actually know this.
I'm 100% convinced everyone who is like "get help, talk to an expert" has never actually fucking tried, because it's not possible.
This could be due to ADD, I am still getting tested. Granted, that's a diagnosis, not a root cause.
The treatment for ADD is one of two medications, methylphenidate or dexamphetamine. You can try other things in addition to these, but not instead of these, and you should try both - there really is just no substitute.
(In some places, bupropion can be prescribed as an antidepressant. It has effects that also help with executive dysfunction, so you may find it to be more effective than serotonin-based antidepressants.)
Really important to understand that depression can also manifest as poor concentration.
There's a huge problem right now with people getting locked into diagnoses found on the internet and then resisting advice of their doctors that doesn't match. It's scarily common for depressed patients to become convinced that they have ADHD and that ADHD explains everything, then to refuse depression treatment. They can jump from doctor to doctor until they find someone who doesn't care and just writes the prescription, but years can pass before they realize that stimulants aren't fixing their depression.
If you have depression, with or without ADHD, you need to address it. Don't get sucked into the "ADHD explains everything about you" mentality that gets spread on the internet.
No, not quite - there's a variety of different ADHD medications and I'd argue there's more popular ones like Vyvanse (lisdexamfetamine). Non-stimulants like Strattera or Intuniv absolutely can and are prescribed on their own, which are really useful for people that respond poorly to stimulants.
Perhaps you meant to say there's two main classes of stimulants (amphetamines, methylphenidates) that are worth investigating and shouldn't be skipped over?
The internet is really, really bad at pushing everyone toward ADHD diagnoses and then pushing them further toward stimulants. There's a darker part of some of the communities then pushes people to keep pressuring their doctors for higher and higher doses and also discourages people from trying therapy.
Outside of the internet I know several people who did the rounds with medications and ended up on the non-stimulant options and preferred them. This is an unthinkable conclusion if your primary source of information is Reddit, X, or TikTok ADHD influencers, but it's pretty common in the real world.
Stimulants have a habit of being enjoyable at first (meaning people like taking them, beyond their attention effects) and then the effects wane over the years, to the point that there are studies showing that the effects of stimulants taken long term in children are minimal to unmeasurable after several years. This is confusing to anyone who has been taking them for years and notices a difference on days when they don't take them, but that's explainable by the fact that it takes months (or longer) for the brain to adapt to not having them in the body. For some reason this same effect is not debated as much when you talk about people who drink 5 cups of coffee per day but then crash hard when they miss their coffee, but it gets protested and argued a lot when we talk about literal amphetamines.
Anyway, please don't listen too much to internet ADHD forums. They're just so, so bad these days with bad advice and poor psychology/therapy takes. You really need to engage with professionals with an open mind and not be single minded about acquiring and taking stimulants if you want to address this problem as a whole. The way the internet treats ADHD as a simple "low dopamine" state (which is wrong on many levels) and then points to stimulants as a "raise your dopamine" drug to neatly cancel it out sounds nice, but it's wrong on so many levels.
Strattera can help (I mentioned bupropion, another SDNRI). Of course if you try stimulants and don’t respond well, it’s totally fine to just use e.g. Strattera. What I’m advocating against is e.g. “try Strattera first, if it seems to help, don’t bother with stimulants”. (Some places, cultures, or medical systems do have surprisingly strong biases against stimulants!)
realized this one about myself earlier this year, it really helped to boil it down to something besides “I am just inherently bad at things.” that attitude worked as a dumb single kid, but it was harming my adult life and relationships.
therapy helped me get there. I have been on bupropion for about a year, and recently started on methylphenidate. it might not be the right one for me, or maybe too small of a dosage. I’m taking it slow and being deliberate with the drugs.
working with a personal trainer to get in shape and lose weight, as well as quitting my fully vested tech job to fuck off and be a cook for a while has also done wonders for me here. it’s cliche, but you really can’t replace fitness with anything else, and that took me 35 years to internalize.
I am also fantasizing about this and am only holding off from doing it because of the social stigma (what idiot would quit a well paid full-time job). My biggest issue with the software industry is the feverish shiny-new-thing syndrome that AI is causing (and my current company is all in on this, with "Hyper-Velocity Engineering" panels). Maybe I don't want to move at light speed and would rather stop and smell the roses.
but I don’t care. I put 15 years into my tech career. I am good at building software, and I will not let this ridiculous “resume gap” problem stop me from taking a break for my mental health. any tech employer that wouldn’t want me because of it is a place I wouldn’t want to work anyway.
also, to be honest, I’m writing more code now than I ever did in the last year of my tech job… working on a full CMS and custom website combo for my friends bar, such that I can copy that template over for future projects (want to help local businesses escape the bullshit machine). also building a cool web development desktop app. and more! I’m having a great time
This really struck a chord with me. I've spent the last 15+ years building up a craftperson's skillset (IMO) akin to a carpenter's or mechanic's. Yet, people still seem surprised when I tell them I'm not willing to run a slop cannon and excrete software which is _good enough_. I actually enjoy the nuts and bolts of writing and debugging software and using AI feels like cheating (if only myself). I'm really not sure where I go from here. I wish I had a work situation like yours to complain about but I know I'd have hit the eject button the minute someone started mandating anything about my workflow, so it's kind of moot.
Are you doing entry level line cook work or something?
I'll re-enter tech later... maybe.
Ofcourse, no pill is magical, and I have no expectations of that. At least fluoxetine fixed my sleeping habits.
Yep. I was diagnosed with ASD and ADHD about a 1.5 years ago... My whole life came into focus. Everything that didn't make sense suddenly started to make sense. What I thought were 15 different issues I was dealing with were really all just symptoms of the one (or two in my case). The internal tension I've always felt was also explained by the competing desires of ASD and ADHD.
Knowing this hasn't really "fixed" any of that, but it has given me an explanation, language to use to explain it, and permission to stop searching for what's wrong with me... which I've been doing for 20 years. It's been nice to have a break.
The trap is trying to externalize the diagnoses as a get out of jail free card that can be used to justify avoiding hard changes and difficult work. The more difficult version of this is when someone tries to externalize the responsibilities of their diagnosis on others. I've seen a couple situations where someone got an ADHD diagnosis and then took it straight to their employers expecting to receive more forgiveness for late work and mistakes, then getting angry when it didn't change their company's expectations. It's a hard conversation to have with someone who thinks the diagnosis is going to relieve the weight of all the problems they've been facing, when in fact it's only helpful for identifying what they need to work even harder on improving and coping with.
Hope you get it worked out OP. I will say, if it's ADHD, it's 100% worth trying to get the best treatment you can.
Mistakes happen, bugs are impossible to avoid. You may need to add rigid processes to your work to avoid the most egregious examples, but you just have to live with the fact that you will write bugs.
If you find you write more bugs than your peers and they have more impact than your peers, that's fine maybe you are not cut out to be a "systems engineer" maybe move to something more forgiving like frontend or something, you will probably be happier.
There is a reason that I am not working on avionics or respirator firmware. I don't have the discipline to follow the processes required to minimize the chance of accidentally killing people and I don't want the legal liability.
You don't have to be working on "important" stuff, John Carmack one of the best and most celebrated developer of our time spent most of his career working on games.
Be mercenary, do not take pride in your work, do your work for money. You will be happier, take pride in who you are and what you do outside of work.
The things that both of them have in common is that they're sustainable. If you do not like your current position, make it sustainable for the time being. I was unable to do that, twice, so I think I'm at a point where I cannot do what I need to do.
Even the fun work (FOSS) is something I cannot sustain for 40 hrs a week, despite how much I enjoy it.
Time will tell, though
my personal riff on that is 'stop assigning self worth to the quality that others assign to your work'. being able to internally generate self-worth through the act of producing high quality work is a super power.
I like Paul Graham's "keep your identity small" piece: https://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html
When you're not personally identified with your work, it stings a whole lot less when someone rips it up. And keep in mind we're imperfect people working with other (often very) imperfect people. It's a mess, and always will be.
She is smart, she is talented and incredibly curious and those things I really do not worry about. What will set her apart from the majority of her peers throughout life will be her ability to effectively communicate and interact with others in a way that is meaningful. It’s benefits go far beyond what most of us appreciate
However succeeding is increasingly harder and harder.
You can be the best communicator in the world but when the world only want to push their story to manipulate you towards their will then the only skill that counts is obedience or being the most aggressive manipulator. I wish that meaningful communication was a key to good and content life.
You still can have your bubbles in the universe though, there it is invaluable, of course. Isolationism on the personal level might be necessary, unfortunately.
1. It's okay to make mistakes. Pain + reflection = progress.
2. Try to shift your perspective so your sense of worth isn't tied to your work.
3. Anytime you say "I should", "I need to", usually this is sign you are blindly following some sort of cognitive script [0]
I think it's also good to be aware when you're lying to yourself. An easy example is how people talk about their gym membership.
"Oh, I would go, but I am so busy with X", or "I am already doing Y, so I don't really need to go". It's always a non-reason, while the true reason is that they just do not see a reason to go.
I don't get why this happens with work, though. I didn't love my job, but I definitely loved the colleagues, and I felt like I didn't do that bad of a job (ofcourse I see this differently now, I was doing a bad job).