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Posted by vimarsh6739 2 hours ago

Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model(thinkingmachines.ai)
281 points | 80 comments
segmondy 49 minutes ago|
Very nice, multi modal, largest open weight model that supports audio. Would be interesting to see how good the audio capability is.

If you want to run locally, checkout https://github.com/danielhanchen/llama.cpp/tree/add-inkling https://unsloth.ai/docs/models/inkling https://huggingface.co/unsloth/inkling-GGUF https://huggingface.co/unsloth/inkling-NVFP4

This supposedly is better than KimiK2.7, as much hype as GLM5.2 gets, I find myself using KimiK2.7 half of the time, so if the benchmark is true, then this can definitely go in the mix. My hope is that it might have strengths in some areas to beat all other open weight models.

wxw 2 minutes ago||
> Inkling is not the strongest overall model available today, open or closed. Instead, a combination of qualities makes it a good open-weights base for customization: multimodal capabilities, efficient thinking, and availability on Tinker for fine-tuning.

Open base models that can be fine tuned on Tinker is a great business model IMO. You (i.e. an enterprise) can own your own model & have it perform frontier-or-better and Thinking Machines gets to be your essential infra/service provider in this world.

Also,

> Inkling-Small matches or exceeds its larger sibling on many benchmarks — the result of improvements we made to the pre-training data and recipe for the smaller model.

Very cool! Excited to see the next generations of Thinky models.

ls_stats 2 hours ago||
America needs its own DeepSeek or Z.ai, a lot of people (myself included) root for open chinese models to win because they have no other choice.

Thinking Machines might be it.

joshmarlow 49 minutes ago||
I don't hear about them a lot but it looks like arcee.ai is aiming to be just that.

Here are some of their current open weight offerings: https://www.arcee.ai/open-source-catalog

gkapur 2 hours ago|||
It could be but there are a host of companies going after open weights models: Arcee, Reflection, Llama (TBD on Meta's focus on closed-source versus open-source), etc.

That said, the fine-tuning API + open weight model at least is a semblance of a viable business that could work so I will be curious about it. I'm not sure the synergy is fully there (why is someone with an open weights model privelaged to fine-tune it better if it's just QLora or Lora) but let's see!

andriy_koval 1 hour ago||
> It could be but there are a host of companies going after open weights models: Arcee, Reflection, Llama (TBD on Meta's focus on closed-source versus open-source), etc.

my bet is that Chinese government fund Chinese models way more compared to what those companies receive (except llama, which is outdated but was strong foundation at its time)

gkapur 1 hour ago|||
The story of Reflection AI is supposedly that the company was faffing and failing at winning in the coding agent space, but was introduced to Jenson, who suggested they build an open-weight model and said he would fund it. That turned into a $2 billion financing with NVIDIA doing roughly $500 million and was a complete pivot.

I think the bet would have to be that a US Open Weight company either: 1. Gets a lot of money from Jenson who views them as a counterbalance to the big labs in his ecosystem and a way to generate leverage (the same way he is positioning neoclouds-- it also could be synergistic with neoclouds who could offer the model serving endpoints) 2. Can fast follow the same way Mistral does (which, honestly, seems like just distilling the Chinese model, which distills the US lab but is pretty innovative on a whole lot of architecture both in training and serving land.) 3. AND figure out some (maybe not super lucrative but lucrative enough) sort of business model, as well. There are lots of possible business models, so I will be curious how this whole space evolves.

andriy_koval 1 hour ago|||
> That turned into a $2 billion financing with NVIDIA doing roughly $500 million and was a complete pivot.

I suspect 2B is not enough to boostrap frontier model from the scratch (for both talent and hardware)

fmajid 51 minutes ago|||
Jensen Huang is just trying to commoditize the complements to his GPUs.
mannanj 1 hour ago|||
I have a similar bet. Looks like people don't like this idea. You got downvoted a lot.
UncleOxidant 19 minutes ago|||
Hopefully they'll release some smaller models (<100B) that we can run on home hardware at faster than 10tok/s.
bostonvaulter2 51 minutes ago|||
What is the business model for an open weight model?
matsur 27 minutes ago|||
Thinky has a potential answer in Tinker — give away the weights and charge for the SFT (and maybe RL down the line) to make the model more capable for specific tasks.
raincole 20 minutes ago||||
To compete against America. If your country has something like DeepSeek you really can't afford to let it fall as it's your best leverage if the US government decides to ban companies in your country from accessing American LLMs. And this is why there will never be a "DeepSeek of the US."
gtirloni 14 minutes ago||
Considering how volatile things can get depending on who's president, I'd say even American companies need to "compete against America" if they don't want to get their rug pulled from under them (which, apparently, the legal system allows to easily happen in the US).
ergocoder 23 minutes ago||||
The same business model that Deepseek is using.

Open-source models + services. This is more attractive because it doesn't lock in the vendors. If I grow larger, I can decide to deploy the open-source models.

tyre 7 minutes ago||
So they're constantly hemorrhaging their most valuable clients?

Tech history is littered with the corpses of "open source but we sell hosting" services. Models are so expensive to train, you can't be losing the big clients once they get super profitable.

tonic_note 33 minutes ago|||
isn't that what Reflection is trying to be?
verdverm 2 hours ago|||
Its not as good as GLM 5.2 for agentic workflows while also being bigger. Competition is going to be ruthless because the super low cost to switching.

There is also AllenAi in the US, but they have yet to produce a model at this scale. Thankfully, new contenders can come out of nowhere and do well, as long as they can produce a competitive model.

InsideOutSanta 1 hour ago|||
> Its not as good as GLM 5.2 for agentic workflows while also being bigger

GLM 5.2 underwent extensive post-training and iteration since its original release to reach its current state. This seems like an extremely strong model for a first release, with a lot of potential for improvement, just like DS4.

Sometimes I wish Meta had stuck with Llama 4 a bit longer to see how much further it could be pushed.

verdverm 18 minutes ago||
This is a great point
ianbutler 1 hour ago||
It's nice to see a strong long context open weights model that is multi-modal.

There are many applications that will benefit from the strength in audio here and until z.ai and co work in visual this could be very strong for general agentic applications, though I see there's a bit of weakness in the benches for areas that might make that less true.

Like all models need to slap it in your harness and do proper evals on the tasks you care about.

0xbadcafebee 1 hour ago|
MiniMax M3 and DeepSeek v4-Pro are highly capable long context open weight multi-modal models. But long-context is a trap, because performance still falls dramatically after 150k-200k context.
ianbutler 33 minutes ago|||
> But long-context is a trap, because performance still falls dramatically after 150k-200k context.

I often see this repeated, and it is not true task to task. I work on this daily and we have several tasks where long context is advantageous and our evals against a whole battery of models with different windows show it as being so.

This is why having good evals for the tasks you're working on is so important.

I do grant it's a good rule of thumb.

InsideOutSanta 1 hour ago|||
> But long-context is a trap, because performance still falls dramatically after 150k-200k context.

I'm not sure exactly what causes the difference, but this heavily depends on the model. In my experience with Opus 4.8, I can go well over 500k and still get extremely good results. A drastically different example was GLM-5.1, which worked great until about 100k and then turned insane almost immediately. They did fix that with 5.2, though.

minraws 1 hour ago||
For a first model, and given it's open, I am gaining some faith in American Open research labs again...

I couldn't test it since it's not on openrouter or something, but even if it's only as good as GLM5.1 that's more than good enough first attempt, I think.

Perhaps a lot more labs will catch up to ballpark frontier esque level soon, I am all for more competition in any field.

cpt100 15 minutes ago|
NVIDIA is building Nemotron
luciana1u 4 minutes ago||
the open-weight model release cadence is approaching npm package velocity. soon we'll have left-pad-7b and someone will unpublish it and break half of production
janalsncm 1 hour ago||
For the most part it’s better than Nemotron, worse than GLM. This makes it the best American open weights model from what I can tell?
nickludlam 1 hour ago||
It's nearly double the size of Nemotron 3 Ultra, so I'd expect it to be considerably better, although the active parameter count seems to be a touch lower at 41B vs 55B
Reubend 2 hours ago||
Seems like this is particularly good at instruction following, but not as strong at coding as others. It's always great to get more diversity of open weight models though! I'll need to test this out to see what its "personality" is like.
kancha 24 minutes ago||
Not compared against Gemma 4? That is a big omission.
dr_dshiv 1 hour ago|
What are the different business models for open-weight AI companies?
subygan 1 hour ago||
For thinking machines, they provide super simple finetuning APIs.

if it is their model, they can have more lower level integrations for that. Thinking machines might be the only large lab in the US to have business interest aligned with open sourcing strong models that are customizable.

firasd 1 hour ago|||
Just serving the model over API seems like a natural fit and is what many of them are doing. So simply being the cloud provider for your own open weight model can be a source of revenue
charcircuit 1 hour ago|||
What is the moat? The time it takes for AI to rewrite an efficient inference stack for a new model? Considering most LLMs follow a similar architecture, adapting to a new model shouldn't take that much time.
InsideOutSanta 1 hour ago|||
There is no moat. At the moment, all of these companies are burning money to gain mindshare and market share. That's what Thinking Machines is doing; they're not looking for a business model.
dgellow 18 minutes ago|||
Nobody in the LLM world has a moat, or even an actual business model
dyauspitr 1 hour ago|||
But so can everyone else. What’s the moat for spending all those billions. I understand the Chinese angle, they need to undermine American models as a matter of statecraft, but what is the business model here? It just seems like VC charity.
kingleopold 46 minutes ago|||
use open models to gain marketing/users/attention and then go closed? maybe
3848488459 1 hour ago|||
TM is a special company in that a lot of well commected people are willong to fund MM SOLELY because having a woman leader looks well on their family office portfolio.
fragmede 17 minutes ago||
Mira Murati's success isn't because she's a woman.
JimsonYang 54 minutes ago|||
Maybe the thesis is that

Open source low cost models will dominate most enterprise tasks as cost curves will dictate usage. TM is trying to replicate that especially as the US and China gets more defensive with their tech

Topfi 1 hour ago|||
Similar to companies working on FOSS codebases, hosting (sometimes with the license restricting third-parties in some way), providing tailored models and services to customer's and getting bought for your team if your model happens to be competitive enough.
vanuatu 1 hour ago||
- inference

- RLaaS (Tinker, or the more involved FDE motion a la Reflection / Applied Compute)

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