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Posted by merksittich 10 hours ago

Apple targets dozens of OpenAI employees with legal letters(www.ft.com)
344 points | 295 commentspage 2
AlanAzarkin 4 hours ago|
1. Maybe OpenAI is preparing a lawsuit against Apple to secure an antitrust ruling that would select OpenAI models for Siri. 2. Maybe Apple is preparing a lawsuit against OpenAI to force them to disclose their developments during the discovery process.
teravor 2 hours ago||
either openai carelessly stole stuff from apple or apple is trying to slow/hobble a competitive threat. why are people taking sides in the comments? either is equally likely at the moment. discovery could be interesting.
zarzavat 8 hours ago||
It's insane to cross Apple. In the worst case Apple could take the ChatGPT app down like they did to Fortnite. They are probably waiting for discovery to find out how high this goes.
amelius 8 hours ago|
Well, the EU won't allow it.
Normal_gaussian 7 hours ago|||
IIRC Apple have been allowed to remove Fornite from the Apple Store, they just fall foul of the EU Digital Markets Act / DMA (?) when also blocking the Epic Games Store as a route to add/sideload it.

Removing ChatGPT due to ToS violations seems like it would be ok.

jimbokun 8 hours ago|||
Maybe.

Depends if they hate Apple or OpenAI more.

bel8 7 hours ago||
Apple has a decade of beef with EU.

OpenAI has a lot ot catchup on the EU hate scale.

Ylpertnodi 7 hours ago||
Eu person: neither. We'd rather have the Chinese.
JumpCrisscross 6 hours ago||
Yeah, I feel like given two bad choices the EU’s tendency would be to go with a third, worse option.
8note 2 hours ago||
the US is looking to break up the EU and is sending its rich people to make riots and violence.

choosing chinese seems like a shoo in for better operators

speak_plainly 8 hours ago||
I wonder what Jony Ive is thinking about his partnership at the moment.
JumpCrisscross 6 hours ago|
I wonder if he knew.
quux 8 hours ago||
https://archive.is/3J3iw
Danox 7 hours ago||
Among 40 greedy humans would several of them get too happy/carried away and copy sensitive information and take it somewhere else probably…
JKCalhoun 9 hours ago||
How can I say this…? Some companies come across like a neon sign flashing "EVIL!".

It's been nothing but warning signs from this company for at least a year now. I'm so happy to have nothing to do with them (having deleted my account a year or so ago).

Their marketing dept is going to have to really dig to get them out of this hole they've made for themselves.

The idea that I would trust any device they might roll out that is as personal as a personal AI assistant… It's no better than Meta and their creepy glasses.

Yeah, no thanks.

EDIT: I don't mind the downvotes—it means I touched a nerve—whether I am on the right or wrong side of the issue is not as interesting.

Apple, for its flaws, has not lost my trust with regard to my personal data—Meta and others are likely to never gain that back. OpenAI continues to do things to signal that they will not have that trust with me as well.

khalic 9 hours ago||
… so… you’re talking about OpenAI or Apple?
JKCalhoun 9 hours ago|||
Ha ha. Worked at Apple for over two decades—would not have stayed at a company I thought was evil for that long.

A bully at times? I wouldn't argue with that.

yomismoaqui 9 hours ago|||
A quick search:

APP STORE, COMPETITION, AND MARKET CONTROL

  - U.S. Department of Justice antitrust lawsuit Accuses Apple of monopolizing
    smartphone markets and anticompetitive behavior.
    https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-sues-apple-monopolizing-smartphone-markets

  - EU Commission DMA breach The European Commission found Apple in breach of
    the Digital Markets Act regarding steering rules.
    https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/news/commission-finds-apple-and-meta-breach-digital-markets-act

  - Epic Games injunction sanctions Court rules Apple defied App Store order
    regarding external payment links.
    https://apnews.com/article/69b16572d2b2c990f6b69d4bbad9b57b

  - EU €1.8B App Store fine Fined for abusive music-streaming rules and
    preventing cheaper alternative information.
    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_24_1161
IPHONE PERFORMANCE AND "BATTERYGATE"

  - Apple Will Finally Pay for Throttling iPhones (WIRED) Apple settled the
    throttling lawsuit for up to $500 million (without admitting guilt).
    https://www.wired.com/story/apple-batterygate-settlement-payments-finally-coming/
RIGHT TO REPAIR AND PARTS PAIRING

  - The End of Parts Pairing? Almost (iFixit) On how software component linking
    forces warnings and loses functionality.
    https://www.ifixit.com/News/100266/the-end-of-parts-pairing-almost

  - Self-Repair Programme Critique (Right to Repair Europe) Critiques
    serialization, remote authorization, and part restrictions.
    https://repair.eu/news/apples-self-repair-programme-is-not-the-right-to-repair-we-need/

  - France is Fighting to Save Your iPhone from an Early Death (WIRED) Regarding
    France's probe into planned obsolescence and parts pairing.
    https://www.wired.com/story/right-to-repair-apple-france/
PRIVACY AND SURVEILLANCE

  - Apple to pay $95 million to settle Siri privacy lawsuit (Reuters) Lawsuit
    alleging accidental Siri recordings and sharing with third parties.
    https://www.reuters.com/legal/apple-pay-95-million-settle-siri-privacy-lawsuit-2025-01-02/

  - Apple's CSAM On-Device Scanning Critiques (EFF) The Electronic Frontier
    Foundation's critique of Apple's plan to scan photos on-device (later
    dropped).
    https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/08/apples-plan-think-different-about-encryption-opens-backdoor-your-private-life
LABOR CONDITIONS IN SUPPLY CHAINS

  - Apple Reveals Supply Chain, Details Conditions (Reuters) Early reporting on
    audit findings of child labor and work violations.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/world/uk/apple-reveals-supply-chain-details-conditions-idUSTRE80C1KV/

  - Rights Group Says Apple Suppliers in China Broke Labor Laws (Reuters)
    Reports of excessive overtime and labor violations in Chinese factories.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/business/rights-group-says-apple-suppliers-in-china-breaking-labour-laws-idUSBRE85R0EF/
TAX PRACTICES

  - State aid: Ireland gave illegal tax benefits to Apple worth up to €13
    billion (European Commission) The EC ruling that Ireland gave illegal tax
    benefits to Apple, later upheld.
    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_16_2923
appplication 8 hours ago|||
I’ll defend batterygate. If you know anything about batteries (especially the tendencies of those in that era), the actions taken by Apple were reasonable, though they should have considered the light in which throttling would be taken. The claim against them was valid but I don’t think the actions were ever malicious.
illliillll 9 hours ago||||
None of this seems like it could reasonably be described as evil.
fsflover 8 hours ago||
How about these?

Apple knew a supplier was using child labor but took 3 years to fully cut ties (yahoo.com)

52 points by notRobot on Jan 1, 2021 | un‑favorite | 5 comments

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25607386

Apple's Cooperation with Authoritarian Governments (jessesquires.com)

468 points by ig0r0 on March 31, 2021 | un‑favorite | 291 comments

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26644216

Apple removes nearly 100 VPNs used by Russians to bypass censorship (elpais.com)

31 points by speckx on Oct 1, 2024 | un‑favorite | 3 comments

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41712728

Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA (open-web-advocacy.org)

514 points by yashghelani on July 14, 2025 | un‑favorite | 383 comments

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44557348

Apple defined ICE as a "protected class" in blocking anti-ICE apps (boingboing.net)

146 points by baobun 9 months ago 69 comments

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45520407

https://9to5mac.com/2020/12/29/iphone-workers-forced-labor/

illliillll 8 hours ago||
Let’s try:

> Apple knew a supplier was using child labor but took 3 years to fully cut ties (yahoo.com)

Apple routinely terminates relationships with suppliers when they identify abusive practices, sometimes they’re slow about it.

> Apple's Cooperation with Authoritarian Governments (jessesquires.com)

> Apple removes nearly 100 VPNs used by Russians to bypass censorship (elpais.com)

Apple obeys local laws

> Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA (open-web-advocacy.org)

Apple chooses to maintain control over a specific implementation detail of their platform that a handful of nerds object to.

> Apple defined ICE as a "protected class" in blocking anti-ICE apps (boingboing.net)

The claim made in this headline is just straight up false.

I don’t know, I don’t think their less-than-ideal behaviour is anywhere bad enough to reasonably be described as “evil”. Otherwise, we’re probably all evil.

throw10920 8 hours ago||
Thank you for your work. You spent far more time debunking misinformation than fsflover spent spreading it.
fsflover 1 hour ago||
Shallow dismissals like "straight up false" that contradict multiple reputable news outlets aren't "debunking".

Calling well-know human right activist NGOs "handful of nerds" is straight up misinformation.

alansaber 9 hours ago||||
Well, just enough evil to increase profit margins.
camillomiller 8 hours ago|||
A list of very normal capitalistic practices. Borderline, sometimes ruthless, sometimes opportunistic. Evil is enabling genocide in Myanmar, which Meta provenly did. Evil is voluntarily steal millions of artworks for your own benefit, which OpenAI has provenly done. Etc…
fsflover 7 hours ago||
Isn't polluting the environment evil? http://www.ibtimes.com/apple-airpods-repair-recycling-imposs...
Danox 6 hours ago||
That would describe mankind as a whole…

The cars that I’ve driven since 18, My contribution to the plastic problem over the years, etc.

fsflover 6 hours ago||
The difference is Apple intentionally chose unrepairable design, despite much smaller companies offer repairable earplugs (See: PineBuds Pro).
illliillll 2 hours ago||
Approximately no one ever breaks their AirPods, so the amount of waste eliminated through better repairability would almost certainly be non-existent.
brazukadev 7 hours ago||||
> Ha ha. Worked at Apple for over two decades—would not have stayed at a company I thought was evil for that long.

Maybe, just maybe, you are also evil?

ewild 8 hours ago|||
What about the kids they intentionally get driven to suicide by keeping the blue bubbles for no other reason than child indoctrination due to bullying from other kids.
okdood64 7 hours ago|||
Sounds like a societal and parenting problem that Apple has nothing to do with.
retsibsi 7 hours ago||
My first reaction was that it was ridiculous, or at least hysterically framed. But the claim is that the whole point of the bubble colour thing, from Apple's perspective, is to take advantage of status games among (largely) kids. If that's true, then it's probably fair to hold Apple partially responsible for the predictable negative consequences. I'd be surprised if something so silly was actually decisive in the worst cases, but I guess if this is playing out among millions of kids, it may be having outsized effects occasionally.
steve1977 7 hours ago||||
These are quite heavy accusations. Do you have a source for your claim that this was the intention?
EtienneK 7 hours ago||||
You ok bro?
wat10000 8 hours ago|||
wat
plufz 9 hours ago|||
From what we know this far it’s quite easy to be on Apples side in this particular question, right?
khalic 8 hours ago|||
Yes it was more of a jest than a critique, the comment didn't explicitly say which one it was. In this case, it seems quite clear that Apple has a case.
JKCalhoun 9 hours ago|||
Especially since Apple has no history of doing this—suggests this is on another level of theft.

(I worked at Apple and am aware of little "theft" incidents that came and went. Obviously those little incidents never made the news cycle.)

nba456_ 9 hours ago||
How could you have worked at Apple during the entire Samsung lawsuit and say Apple has no history of suing competitors over IP theft?
JKCalhoun 8 hours ago|||
You're right—I didn't mean to suggest they've never sued competitors. Some companies are just known to be litigious—I've never put Apple in that bucket. (And maybe I have blinders on. It's certainly fair to blame me for being biased.)
EPWN3D 8 hours ago|||
Because Apple didn't sue Samsung over IP theft. They sued them over copyright infringement.
bradyd 7 hours ago||
It was actually patent infringement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._v._Samsung_Electron....

oceansweep 5 hours ago|||
apple tracks every binary you execute and run on macos and sends the hash of it to their systems. Do you consider that to be respecting your privacy?
JKCalhoun 1 hour ago||
It depends on how it is done.

No, seriously.

I worked at Apple on Schoolwork for the last few years of my career and saw firsthand how Apple handles data it gathers. As an example, every device was given a unique identifier that in no way identified the user of the device (I mean it was simply a UUID). Additionally, it was tossed and a new one recreated every 11 months.

Because I am inclined to give Apple the benefit of the doubt (your mileage may vary), I am assuming the binary hash they send is intended to protect users from malicious binaries (once their hash is identified of course). And if Apple in this case also rotates the UUID every 11 months, I don't have to worry about them targeting me and my habits specifically (well, not beyond 11 months windows in any event).

Additionally, when at Apple, we had privacy teams walk through things like error logs that our app and framework wrote—making sure there was no PID (personally identifiable information) in the logs. A naive engineer might, in a URL-fetch timeout, for example, log something like, "Timeout for URL request: 'myblog.blogsite.com'". Privacy would ask, "Is it important we log the full URL? Might we instead just log the domain?"

groundzeros2015 8 hours ago|||
> Some companies come across like a neon sign flashing "EVIL!".

This is a perception created by your choice of media.

Danox 6 hours ago|||
In Samsung’s case, they are evil buy something from them, and you are dead to them after the sale mind you, that probably would be the case with many Korean and Chinese companies too.

Would never buy anything from Samsung.

JKCalhoun 8 hours ago|||
Probably.

(HackerNews, FWIW.)

JumpCrisscross 7 hours ago|||
> don't mind the downvotes—it means I touched a nerve

Nope. You wrote an ambiguous blurb that then breaks guidelines by commenting “about the voting on comments” [1].

Try taking out the edit and change “this company” in the second paragraph to OpenAI.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

JKCalhoun 6 hours ago||
…and too late to edit my edit…

(Weird thing about HN.)

gsibble 8 hours ago||
Agreed. Very wary of OpenAI these days.
zuzululu 5 hours ago||
Looks like a bunch of OpenAI employees involved in the theft are going to see prison time and nobody is going to hire them other than shady startup founders who will probably ask "is this guy going to steal from me "

I think this is a good reminder that no company is going to put their neck out for you. IF you go above and beyond whether, whatever the carrot is on the end of the stick you chase, you are only good as what you give back.

Never stay loyal or go all out for your employers, I think the new gen z are far more wiser. It's simply not worth it and I don't feel guilty for working three different employers via remote. Would they get mad and fire me if they found out? Sure. But then I'd just replace them with the next one.

YOU are the only person you should be loyal to. Don't steal for companies, don't lie for companies, don't work extreme hours for some "startup equity" that won't mount to shit (note those are extremely rare)

Collect your pay check, do the minimum, if possible find more pay checks.

thewebguyd 3 hours ago|
> Looks like a bunch of OpenAI employees involved in the theft are going to see prison time

Very likely, and I don't see this brought up often. The discussions are always focused on Apple v. OpenAI, but there are very real, serious criminal charges here potentially. This goes well beyond just a civil lawsuit.

Would not be surprised at all to see criminal charges soon.

senordevnyc 1 hour ago||
Right, just like you think that Apple is somehow going to magically get an injunction that freezes ALL software deployments at OpenAI and drives them out of business.

People’s inability to reason in the face of their hatred for Sama is wild.

josefritzishere 9 hours ago||
Wait until it comes out that OpenAI stole trade data through their deal with Atlassian. Seems inevitable. The company is fundamentally criminal in nature.
stiltzkin 3 hours ago|
[dead]
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