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Posted by rellem 8 hours ago

The state of open source AI(stateofopensource.ai)
334 points | 237 commentspage 3
Cuuugi 8 hours ago|
Maybe its the wildfire smoke in my eyes, but that font choice feels aggressive.
input_sh 7 hours ago||
It's their own fonts: Mozilla Headline and Mozilla Text.

No idea why they'd be using the display font for the abstract though, that kind of defeats the whole purpose. It's supposed to be quirky and bold, but used far more sparsingly.

hungryhobbit 5 hours ago|||
Forget aggressive, I just find the main text font harder to read (vs. ... you know ... a normal font).
aprilthird2021 8 hours ago||
It's AI slop
hypfer 8 hours ago||
This new trend of content appearing while scrolling down is so terrible accessibility-wise, I do not understand how Mozilla of all institutions would do it.

Not every trend needs to be followed. Have some backbone. You receive donations to have that.

___

Apart from the website being - frankly - bullshit, the content is also - frankly - bullshit.

It's just on the frontpage because the title says "open source AI".

azangru 8 hours ago|
> This new trend of content appearing while scrolling down is so terrible accessibility-wise, I do not understand how Mozilla of all institutions would do it.

Could you explain what is wrong with the accessibility of this page? All the content is included in the html payload, so it is accessible to screen readers and text-based browsers; and as for the "reveal" effect, it seems to respect user's choice of "prefers reduced motion" and is disabled when that is user's preference.

hypfer 8 hours ago||
> it seems to respect user's choice of "prefers reduced motion".

Cool, that I didn't check, because it is impossible to enable that setting, as it breaks _huge_ amounts of websites.

I'm not aware of a way to enable it selectively, but one could also just display the content at all times. It's a static page. It's static content. None of this makes any sense.

___

The idea behind that style of gradual reveal is probably some kind of storytelling, but the only story it tells is that mozilla is wasting donations on people with incorrect opinions that could be used on.. idk not building torment nexii?

ProofHouse 3 hours ago||
It’s literally a paradox. It cannot be changed. Open Source AI will ultimately win. Think it through.
hughw 7 hours ago||
Is the CTO a bot?
lostmsu 6 hours ago||
Can a vending machine operator do better than Mozilla management? - that's the golden question.
paulddraper 6 hours ago||
> Open weights are no longer a compromise. They are where the work happens.

> They require owning the layers above it — the harness, the memory, the permission model — while those layers are still open.

> Open isn't a vendor choice. It's a sovereignty choice.

mrcwinn 6 hours ago||
Seems quite odd to use OpenRouter as “proof” that open weights models won. If you’re using OpenRouter, you’re already looking to bypass frontier models. To suggest there’s no longer a tradeoff simply isn’t true. But this isn’t the first time I thought Mozilla was a less than trustworthy source of information.
hungryhobbit 5 hours ago|
I think "If you’re using OpenRouter, you’re already looking to bypass frontier models." is false. Our company uses both Claude subscriptions and OpenRouter ... and a lot of what we use OpenRouter for is more Claude.

We do a little exploration with other models through it, but it's not at all accurate to say we use it because we are "already looking to bypass frontier models".

... or at least, no more than any other company that doesn't want to overpay for their tooling, but is basically happy (ATM) with the current state of Claude.

inigyou 7 hours ago||
There isn't any open-source AI. There is Open AI (not to be confused with the closed company called OpenAI, which was unable to trademark its name). There's no open source AI both because the open source community doesn't have the resources to train a useful AI and because AI doesn't have source code.
yetanotherjosh 28 minutes ago||
I'm not sure what kind of point you're trying to make. There are projects to train competent modern LLMs in which the entire pipeline (data, training process, final weights) is all completely transparent, shared, and reproducible by anyone with the compute to try it out.

Or is your definition of "open source" mean that a small indie dev should be able to reproduce the entire pipeline? Because that would disqualify more than just LLMs, but also hardware platforms like Arduino where you need to pay for manufacturing to get the underlying stuff built... is Arduino "open source?"

ses1984 7 hours ago|||
Is training code and dataset not source?
inigyou 7 hours ago||
Are they open?
ses1984 3 hours ago||
I’m just challenging your point that ai doesn’t have source.
Catloafdev 7 hours ago||
This is just wrong on multiple levels, the open source model ecosystem is very much a thing.
GuB-42 6 hours ago||
I don't know of any useful model that would match the usual definition of "open source". That is, where everything needed to build the thing is provided, such as the training data and code. Not that it would be tremendously useful anyways considering how expensive training a model is.

I much prefer the "open weights" term. It is not open source in the sense that you only get the finished product, not the actual source, but it is still open in the sense that it is not only accessible as a service.

For an analogy, take Quake for instance. When it was launched, its game server was available as an executable, so you could run it your machine, but that didn't make it open source. Only much later it was released as true open source software.

yetanotherjosh 33 minutes ago|||
Olmo 3? K2 V2? There are definitely LLMs with very compelling capabilities where the dataset, training process, and final weights are all open. There are also initiatives in the EU and various national government levels (e.g. Switzerland) to develop LLMs in an open and transparent way, not just "open weights."
Catloafdev 5 hours ago|||
There are fully open models, it's just not as common because that's basically giving away the sauce, which is non-viable for many.

eg: https://allenai.org

jdw64 8 hours ago||
The UI is really hard on the eyes. Personally, I think the font size is way too big, and the animation timing feels off. If this is a benchmark page and not a product page, I feel like the information should be scannable at a glance. The UX is bad.
100percentjake 8 hours ago||
I'm unsure what it is about AI developers seemingly not having eyeballs. The Hermes Agent website is absolutely eye-searing and the application itself resembles some sort of weird "RETVRN" greek-styled travel agent website.

https://hermes-agent.nousresearch.com/

Jtarii 7 hours ago|||
Really wish websites weren't allowed to force smooth scroll on. Hijacking basic browser functionality is so hostile.
fwip 7 hours ago||||
Oh that's easy: they outsource design to the LLM, which doesn't have eyeballs.
jdw64 8 hours ago||||
I agree 1000%, Mr. Jake.
urbsgpw 8 hours ago|||
I use hermes only ever saw their repo. Atrocious. I was sure you were exaggerating.
farmerbb 8 hours ago|||
Feels like a mobile website that was never optimized for desktop usage.
lardosaurusrex 5 hours ago||
mozilla only began babbling about open source ai when they got their teeth extracted for free via the entire community giving them the curbiest of curbstomps.

i still use firefox but hot damn did they utterly fail to read the room initially. the only other company i can think of in recent memory -- besides sony cutting out discs -- is logitech when their ceo began gibbering about a subscription mouse or microsoft and its copilot button(s).

AstralSerenity 4 hours ago|
It's frustrating because I truly believe they are well-meaning, honest actors. Every single "controversy" surrounding Mozilla can be directly attributed to miscommunication rather than malice. They do often struggle to read the room.

That said, the takeaways from this report are exciting, and I do feel that Mozilla now has the right lens in their assessment of OSS AI and their own approach to ensuring interoperability and setting open, modern standards.

positron26 8 hours ago|
Just like how the web was won?

I think Mozilla is chasing a past formula, but the projection isn't linear enough to remain consistent, and the critical parts of the outcome, utter centralization of the market dominance of the three C's, are left out of the equation.

We might get the consolation prize, a few nerds having competitive alternatives to applaud, but we will be left with the hidden costs: stagnation by bloated market leaders, consumers and businesses pouring trillions of dollars into the commercial offerings while open development wonders where money comes from, and the leakage of these imbalances into political and social spheres.

If we follow a Mozilla template and get to the peak of Mozilla's success at the web, look at what that really is. Facebook, Amazon, Google etc are orthogonal to that equation.

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