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Posted by speckx 1 day ago

Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database(news.risky.biz)
688 points | 388 commentspage 3
nailz1911 1 day ago|
arte.tv released a documentary about measuring and registering land just a month ago @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl7AfiJs5Gk (Romania: The Unmeasured Land | ARTE.tv Documentary)
UltraSane 1 day ago||
Enterprise storage arrays have immutable snapshot functionality that makes ransomware easy to recover from.
iAMkenough 1 day ago|
What does it take to delete a snapshot?
ExoticPearTree 1 day ago|||
Depends on the vendor. Some just admin access to the array, other require a two person authorization to delete it.
UltraSane 1 day ago|||
local admin credentials or two factor or the BEST is a immutable time-lock, so a snapshot cannot be deleted before the retention period that was set when it was taken expires
RandomLensman 1 day ago||
What's wrong with an old fashioned paper registry then?
b3lvedere 1 day ago||
Rotting, sweaty human hands and fire to name a few.
alt227 1 day ago||
Pretty sure fire is a risk to servers as well.
e28eta 1 day ago|||
Servers make it easier to keep & maintain duplicate data in separate locations, which’ll be unlikely to be affected by the same fire.
alt227 10 hours ago||
Yeah, so does photocopying. The threats you are listing are identical to physical model.
red-iron-pine 1 day ago|||
only in that location.

mirror that DB onto a server on the other side of the country, or continent, etc.

alt227 10 hours ago||
Photocopy your documents and send them to another location, same threats same resiliance.
cbg0 1 day ago|||
Nothing, this is why they have both.
Tangurena2 1 day ago|||
It isn't fast enough for mortgage backed securities. Each transfer of ownership of the mortgage requires a separate transfer fee paid to the registry.

Moving from a paper registry at each county clerk (in the US) was a part of the 2008 financial meltdown.

dizhn 1 day ago|||
I am pretty sure they have that too.
RandomLensman 1 day ago||
So which one is the ground truth if there is a difference between them?
foarteistescu 1 day ago||
The paper rules supreme in Romanian bureaucracy.
Narishma 1 day ago||
As it should.
drdrey 1 day ago||
fires? floods? documents getting lost/misplaced/stolen/destroyed?
RandomLensman 1 day ago|||
Seems to be rather sturdy in my experience. Would we even be able to read an electronic record after 100 or 200 years of storage? Old piece of paper is quite accessible.
AndroTux 1 day ago|||
> Old piece of paper is quite accessible

If stored properly.

So are digital copies, though. If stored properly.

RandomLensman 1 day ago||
You need a machine (hardware and software) to read digital copies, not just the digital copies.
AndroTux 1 day ago||
And you need to know how to read to read paper copies. Same thing, essentially. Anyone speaking hieroglyphics fluently? Point is, if you take care of your archive and make sure it remains accessible, it doesn't really matter whether it's digital or analog.
RandomLensman 1 day ago||
Not at all the same thing - what equipment do you need to read hieroglyphs on top of understanding the language (which goes for digital, too)? If you have the paper and understand the language, that's it. We already can see that accessing old digital data isn't necessarily easy if it wasn't always kept on/converted to current media and formats (will we keep that up for millenia)?

And both storage can be broken, needing reconstruction.

If I were to give you a 70y old book in English vs some 70y tape with data on - which one is easier to read?

AndroTux 21 hours ago||
For the third time: IF you take care of the data, it’s fine in both cases. If you neglect your beloved book for 70 years and store it under a bridge, it’s going to be completely useless as well. The key part is the taking care of your medium.
RandomLensman 14 hours ago||
The taking care of the book for 70y does not involve recreating the book over and over again to keep it readable or keeping a reading machine in working condition (or be able to recreate it). It's an entirely different level of care.

If the medium isn't destroyed, it is directly readable if it's a book, but not necessarily so in digital because hardware and software is needed - just taking care of the original medium isn't enough in digital over centuries.

alok-g 19 hours ago||||
Documents getting lost/misplaced/stolen/destroyed is common in some places (owing to corruption or what). "Local in scope" but rampant. Digitization has been a panacea as there is more control over the records, but now more prone to hacking.
wongarsu 1 day ago|||
There have been plenty of instances of paper-based land registries being wiped out. It's just usually a very local problem because paper lends itself more to decentralized storage
RandomLensman 1 day ago||
Yes, so quite limited in scope. We have no experience with storing and keeping accessible electronic records for hundreds of years, though, but we know already that accessing old storage media and formats isn't necessarily easy.
tredre3 1 day ago||
So far accessing old storage media from 50+ years ago hasn't really been a problem. Reading old tapes and punch cards/tapes or even early hard drives is something that a single motivated hobbyist can achieve in a few weeks or months with a microcontroller and patience.

But it's more difficult to imagine that 1000 years from now someone will be able to read from a PCI-E NVME drive if the specs get lost along the way (ignoring for a moment that flash storage most likely won't retain data that long).

RandomLensman 1 day ago||
I would not call needing weeks or months not a problem (assuming you also get the potentially proprietary software to understand the data recovered). Also, early hard drives weigh 100s of kilograms, so just physically handling them is difficult.

Totally agree on accessing NVME example.

alt227 1 day ago|||
Seems like fires and floods would also affect servers too.
danieldrehmer 1 day ago||
Dibs on Vlad's castle
lorreyfum 22 hours ago||
Who was there first?
iamgopal 1 day ago||
would blockchain could have prevented it ?
ceejayoz 1 day ago|
No.
arisAlexis 1 day ago||
We will see a lot of those with open source Mythos equivalent models.
gregoriol 1 day ago||
The new world will be: move fast and trust AIs
LelouBil 1 day ago|||
I mean:

> Sources told Risky Business that the hacker entered using valid credentials

This is social engineering or corruption.

rcostin2k2 1 day ago||
... and an incorrect password policy and poor access control. Usually, in these institutions, if STS is not responsible, there are third-party companies, usually proxies, that are responsible for managing the firewall and accessing the data. The lack of procedures and lack of supervision from the authority, combined with the delay from the service providers, leads to a situation where everyone does backups as they think is best. That's why it takes so long now, because STS restores data from different formats, from different places, made at different times
sph 1 day ago||
“This is good for AI”
rimworld 1 day ago||
aka tokenize everything
riazrizvi 1 day ago|
Many many times, entire armies have been sent in to adjust another country's land registry.
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