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Posted by softwaredoug 16 hours ago

“We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”(twitter.com)
https://xcancel.com/mkratsios47/status/2079933645888880708
230 points | 597 commentspage 11
cregy 10 hours ago|
I think the major take away is, Chinese labs are very good at stealing others AI work and offering it did a fraction of the cost. This will be the reason the AI stock market bubble bursts. Unless they add in protection similar to patents, which stops these copied models being used by business.
rambojohnson 11 hours ago||
who cares. all these frontier models are trained on theft.
dmitrygr 13 hours ago||
OMG someone used our data to make an MK model! Just like we did to every author in the world!
BigTTYGothGF 10 hours ago||
Good for Moonshot.
martinjc 12 hours ago||
So what? I want the best model at the cheapest price. You guys illegally trained on books, movies, audiobook etc.. Why should we care?
xingped 6 hours ago||
God I'm sick and tired of AI companies being so damn whiney all the time. Shut up already. No one cares.
4ndrewl 12 hours ago||
So? Their business model requires building on the labor of others for free. Isn't that how it works?
mattrighetti 14 hours ago||
Is distillation something we have to live with or are there ways to prevent it?
sosodev 14 hours ago||
Realistically you can't prevent distillation. OpenAI / Anthropic are slowly moving towards hiding the steps in-between input and output (hidden thinking), but that only helps so much. Imagine you put a file into Claude and say "do X to this" and it returns it to you without showing any of its internal reasoning. That's harder to distill, but the simple mapping of input to output still creates very valuable training data. It is reflective of all the training the model did to learn how to do that transformation.
make3 13 hours ago||
You can also get it to think in the output tokens pretty easily, eg "Here's a math problem, I want your reasoning first, then the answer" which is what I assume they're doing.
Cytobit 13 hours ago|||
You make it sound like a bad thing.
HarHarVeryFunny 13 hours ago|||
You can prevent it by outputting a reasoning "summary" instead of the actual reasoning trace.

Which Anthropic already do.

recursive 9 hours ago|||
To the extent that we have to live with AI and LLM, I believe we have to live with distilling also.
sowbug 12 hours ago|||
If you build a device that can help build devices, you shouldn't be too surprised when people use it to build devices.
epolanski 13 hours ago||
If it was genuinely useful, we would've long reached the point where you train a model on a previous one's output in an ever improving loop.

But this doesn't actually work.

NDlurker 11 hours ago||
Good. Keep it up
Gud 11 hours ago|
OK, DIRECTOR Michael Kratsios, but why should we give a shit?

American AI corporations are pushing up the prices for computing, making it unaffordable for the common man. Additionally, they have built their entire business on stealing(yes, stealing) work from us.

So fuck em

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