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Posted by dwwoelfel 8 hours ago

Writing by hand is good for your brain(nealstephenson.substack.com)
819 points | 412 commentspage 4
vivzkestrel 7 hours ago|
- coding without an LLM is also good for your brain

- whose gonna tell it to em?

- dont worry, the long term studies are going to pick this up big time 5 years from now

stingraycharles 7 hours ago||
And the long term studies will show that it’s indeed not good, people will discuss it, and nothing will really change, except that there will be a counter movement, and writing code by hand will become a real craft again.
fooqux 4 hours ago||
We also know fast food, alcohol, etc., are bad for you and yet most people do these things. I wouldn't bet on LLM usage going down due to it anytime soon.
jdgoesmarching 4 hours ago|||
I thought the purpose of coding was to produce software, but apparently every action I take should be evaluated on how well it achieves arbitrary brain calisthenics.
monsieurbanana 2 hours ago||
Yes the brain is known to be useful when writing software
sdffdssdfsfd23 4 hours ago|||
Coding manually keeps you focused on irrelevant details. I find people that actually like that cognitive style and try to remain in it for as long as possible insanely unproductive. They'll spend years coding up shit that can be replaced in a month. I've seen it happen multiple times now and I'm getting sick of it. Proper problem decomposition and architecture is everything. Think about your problem domain. Code is just bullshit.

I'm dealing all day with developers incapable of thinking about anything else than "queries", "classes", "structs" and "early returns are bad". Semantics, ontologies, interfaces, abstraction boundaries, problem decomposition: ain't got no time for that.

We got structs to initialize, copy constructors to worry about and header definitions in bloody C++ to deal with! Oh look, you forgot to use Yoda-speak in your conditional, also you initialized two variables instead of one in this completely transient, temporary piece of code that is only run once every two months. Let's talk about this all morning! Because code hygiene is so extraordinarily important. You should definitely worry about each and every line of code. I hear it's "good for the brain".

bee_rider 7 hours ago||
I wonder if an LLM could just turn my hand-written notes into code, and if so, where this’d land on the brain health spectrum.
mindfulbun 2 hours ago||
I love handwriting. I do daily logs of my workday. I just write what’s happening, what I’m doing during the day, what tasks are coming in, and so on. Surprisingly, it works well for a person with ADHD. It’s a method to ground myself and avoid slipping into ADHD hyperfocus.

The only problem I have is doing it comfortably. My desk is cluttered with a keyboard, laptop, and monitor. There’s barely any room to write with proper posture, and shuffling things around every time just isn’t practical

Quimoniz 1 hour ago|
Huh. Sounds just like me :D Depth helps there. Since I started working mostly on desks with a depth of 80 cm in front of me (or 31 inches that is) it's gotten usually pretty easy to squeeze in a notebook or a paper (also hanging the monitors on the wall, so that no foot is on the desk any more, gives another extra 10 cm).
ssttoo 5 hours ago||
I don’t know about the brain but it’s good for the final results in my experience coding, writing and composing (orchestral music). The results are better and it takes less time if I start with pen and paper before “committing” to the computer. One of my favorite authors Jennifer Egan also writes fiction on paper (non-fiction articles still on the computer). More thoughts: https://www.phpied.com/starting-in-the-analog-domain/
crashbunny 3 hours ago||
I've always love stationery. Over the years I've looked up pen reviews and tried out many different types including fountain pens.

I watched a video recently from someone, from memory the creator behind the youtube channel vsauce. Very briefly, he lost some notes to water. His words, thoughts and ideas vanished. His solution was switching to pencil.

I found the interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfY2JACiDGU

I'm addicted to people talking about pens and pencils. Adam Savage also has done a few videos on his favourite mechanical pencil.

Apparently Stephenson loves fountain pens and reluctantly gel pens. In general, those are water based inks and will wash away with water. There are one or two fountain pen inks designed to be more permanent and won't wash away with water.

Just something to keep in mind if you're currently writing or want to start.

codazoda 3 hours ago|
I did some fade tests with several pens and a pencil on a laser print. The pencil and toner were the only things that hadn’t faded in direct sunlight after two years. Even high end pens faded.

To be fair, your notebook probably won’t get light like that, but pencils are pretty archival.

crashbunny 3 hours ago||
Interesting. I wonder if in 100 years time Stephenson's fountain pen writing will still be around. No doubt they are all scanned, but, maybe the originals will fade.

I saw another video about someone's favourite pen and he gave the reason as check fraud. Apparently the uniball 207 is pigment based ink and doesn't wash away in acetone.

I just searched then on youtube for acetone pen check fraud and it looks like there's a 13 year old video about it, and a million copycats. Either copycats are lazy, or the 207 is still $2 13 years later.

fridder 2 hours ago||
At least in high school I was the opposite. If I had a class with a teacher strict about notes I didn't absorb the material as well because I was more focused on getting the notes correct than engaging with the material
aledevv 6 hours ago||
> when you write things down by hand you’re recruiting more of your brain, which is a good thing.

I completely agree! Perhaps it's simply for one reason: slowness.

Writing by hand slows down and the brain "breathes", calms down, and the waves of thought flow at their proper pace.

We aren't made to rush always: by slowing down, our brain also has time to better process thoughts and information, one at a time, and each one is given the "time it deserves."

Our brain works best when it's relaxed and has time to make all its connections.

Thinking is, first and foremost, an exercise in slowness.

(ps: I'm also left-handed, I wonder if this also affects the functioning of the brain...).

otterpro 6 hours ago||
> you’re going to get tired faster if your muscles have to exert more force

I like to handwrite, but my right hand gets tired very fast, especially as I got older. I write almost a shorthand style, and it is hard to read, but I value speed of writing things down versus the neatness or readability afterward. The author recommends fountain pen or gel rollerball pen, which I have both tried.

Does anyone have any other advice for preventing fatigue? I've also tried to learn to use my left hand, so I can switch hand when my hand gets tired. But even after months (or years?) of trying, I could never get it to write, or atleast to my satisfaction.

_alternator_ 5 hours ago||
Clench the other fist while writing. This loosens the writing hand. Something in the subconscious releases tension in the other hand. It's a trick I've used with reasonable success and it's immediately effective. It does require a bit of conscious effort, but overall it's a great hack.
dv35z 3 hours ago|||
Consider using "bubble mapping" and connecting words/thoughts, instead of writing linear text.

I write a daily journal - in this calm relaxed mode, I write linearly (on dotted paper).

When I'm in a business meeting, or taking notes where time is fleeting (a speech / seminar), I use bubble notes - which is effective for quickly getting the thoughts down, and connecting them.

Give it a try!

uberstuber 6 hours ago|||
If you're willing to try things like non-dominant hand writing, it may be worth learning something like business cursive. Most of the movement is done with your arm, and it was designed for people who had to handwrite all day for their job.
2b3a51 6 hours ago|||
Other posters are providing advice about writing from the shoulder, and writing slower etc which I would agree with. The other thing I would mention is: how tightly do you grasp/hold the pen? Try relaxing the grasp a bit.

(I've noticed this with students I support. In the UK the public exams known as GCSEs and GCEs are written papers, and some adult students who need to take them have similar fatigue problems).

Edit: another poster has mentioned grip

adrian_b 4 hours ago|||
A liquid ink rollerball pen, for example the classic "uni-ball Vision Elite" is even closer to the effortless writing experience of a fountain pen (i.e. with a minimum pressure on the paper), than any gel pen (but gel pens are still much better than traditional ball-point pens, which require an excessive pressure on the paper; fountain pens and liquid-ink rollerball pens need to just touch the paper, almost no pressure needed).

Versus a fountain pen, a liquid-ink rollerball pen has the advantage of being insensitive to orientation (which may be difficult to control if you tire easily) and it is also much more unlikely to dry up when unused.

I do not write so much by hand as to become tired, so for myself I prefer a Japanese fountain pen with a nib that allows variable-width lines, for less boring letter forms, but if the criterion for choosing is the maximum possible comfort then I recommend a liquid-ink rollerball pen, and I have experimented with all kinds of writing implements known to mankind.

Except for using the most comfortable writing tool, there is nothing else to do besides changing the style in which you write, to simplify the hand movements.

Perhaps you should alternate between 2 different styles of handwriting, because they might stress different hand muscles.

I have no idea what style of handwriting you use, but I am not convinced that the kinds of "cursive" handwriting that were taught in many schools are really the least tiring, despite their emphasis on minimizing the number of times when the pen is raised from the paper. Many years ago I have abandoned the kind of writing that I was taught as a child and I have switched to one of the variants of the so-called "Italic" handwriting, which are now promoted in many places and which are a revival of the Aldine letters from the Italy of the 16th century, which have also been the base from which the so-called "Italic" style of the printed typefaces (fonts) had been developed. Such a handwriting has improved readability, but how fast and comfortable it is felt, can vary a lot between people. It works for me, but that does not mean that it would also be the best for others. There are books and on-line tutorials about this.

Perhaps you should just write slower, to avoid fatigue.

Imanari 5 hours ago|||
There is a technique where you keep your hand almost still and move the whole arm instead.

https://youtu.be/-F8SA_QySkc?is=z0P7I8loxuHVwKXn

ambicapter 6 hours ago|||
Write slower.
cratermoon 6 hours ago||
Don't hold the pen too tightly. Find a pen and paper combination that doesn't require force to write. Ball point pens on cheap notebook paper are notorious for requiring too much force. On quality paper with a good pen the ink will flow effortlessly because of gravity and capillary action. You will only need a light pressure.
kevin42 5 hours ago||
I'm left handed and I never really learned a good grip I could write with. So I've always struggled with handwriting. I also have an essential tremor in my left hand. As I have aged, the tremor has gotten worse. So now, I have to grip tight to minimize the tremor.

I've pretty much given up on handwriting, it's embarrassing to either try to write, or have someone else write stuff for me. I ask my wife to fill stuff out for me all the time, but people probably think that's weird when they see it.

drivers99 5 hours ago||
I'm a convert to the idea of just having a cup full of Bic Cristal (cheap, ubiquitous, reliable, replaceable, 76 year old design) ball point pens. Whenever I temporarily misplace one, I just grab another from the cup as I find them. When I'm cleaning up, they all go back to the cup. However, his point about how hard you have to push to write is making me reconsider. On the other hand, I'm also not writing 42 inch high stacks of manuscripts like him.
exmadscientist 5 hours ago|
The modern version of this is the Pilot G2. Scatter 'em around everywhere! 80% as good as fountain pens at 1% of the fussiness.

I have a Lamy 2000 (well, more than one...) that I adore for writing anything with any actual length. But I still scatter those G2s around.

drivers99 4 hours ago||
I used to be a fan of Zebra Sarasa (retractable, not one of the variations) which I thought was better than the G2, but it wasn't always reliable (maybe they changed something), was more expensive, hard to find in stores (G2 are everywhere though), and accumulates a glob of ink when you draw a line across the page, which ends up wherever you next write something. I happen to have a G2 next to me so I'm testing it for the same problem now, and ended up with a glob somewhere along the long line. I cross things off of todo lists a lot or draw dividers between sections of the page so that happens all the time. Still, it might be a good compromise for the pressure issue for writing sentences.

Not that I'm that price sensitive, it is kind of nice: Sarasa ($2+ each, if you can find it), G2 (~1.25 each), Cristal ($0.10-$0.25 each)

exmadscientist 53 minutes ago||
The G2 definitely does glob. That's one of its bigger faults. (Others being that I, personally, prefer a line width between the 05 and 07 options -- obviously this is world-stoppingly critically important -- and that really old ones, I mean really old, tend to get disgusting sticky grips.)

Mostly they're just nice for being fairly rugged and reliable in a way most nicer pens just aren't, for carrying loads of ink, and for being ubiquitous. They're far from perfect. They're just... Good Enough™. And that's good enough!

fxde 2 hours ago||
On the topic of left handed writing: Switching to the uni-ball jetstream (RT SXN-210 or Sport SXN-150S) was a noticeable improvement for me. I did not search for other alternatives but would be interested if there are similar quick-drying options that work well. I tried the Pilot G2 before that because it got recommended often, but for me it was way worse.
enaaem 6 hours ago|
I write by hand to hack my productivity.

I buy nice notebooks and nice pens that are satisfying to use. I practice my handwriting, so the finished work is satisfying to look at. I think it gives me a bit of dopamine boost.

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