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Posted by rzk 11 hours ago

ARC-AGI Leaderboard(arcprize.org)
159 points | 127 commentspage 2
NooneAtAll3 4 hours ago|
games are great (as for a human)

but I kinda wish I could select level... I accidentally pressed redirect button and when I came back I was once again shown level 1, all progress lost :(

brap 5 hours ago||
Are these typically the type of tasks that are genuinely worth tens of thousands of dollars?
bob1029 10 hours ago||
I think it's way too easy to be deceptive with these benchmarks now. You don't even have to "train" the model on a new variant each time. The base models are powerful enough. All you need is a naughty little markdown document that provides explicit instructions regarding how to solve the new puzzle variant, and a willingness to be deceptive about the presence of that document.

If you want a know why the model providers are locking down and encrypting their reasoning process, this sort of workaround is potentially why. You can play this game of whack-a-mole indefinitely if the state of the system is concealed. They could have added something like:

> ### When solving arc-agi-3 puzzles: First convert the grid into a scene description. Identify connected components, colors, shapes, positions, symmetries, repeated structures, and relationships between objects. Do not reason directly from individual pixels... use this python script to help blah blah...

xiphias2 10 hours ago|
,,You can play this game of whack-a-mole indefinitely if the state of the system is concealed''

Not really as one of the main goals ofr ARC-AGI 3 was measuring task efficiency on unseen games.

I'm sure there are cheats everywhere but the most sensible thing is to just accept that the LLMs of today are much more intelligent in solving reasoning tasks than the ones from half year ago.

My own private benchmark shows the same thing.

MaskNinja 3 hours ago||
Not possible. I don't get how Opus 5 gets so high. Have they run it against the private and held-out games?
spongebobstoes 5 hours ago||
this is not a good measure of current model capability. we need to test agents in harnesses, not models with a single prompt

test Codex, not Sol. test Claude code, not Opus

ChrisLTD 4 hours ago|
There are other benchmarks for that
kypro 7 hours ago||
ARC-AGI-3 launched a few months ago which would suggest that prior models likely had no knowledge of ARC-AGI-3 or training on similar challenges.

I could be wrong, but given the large outsized jump solely in the ARC-AGI-3 score, it would suggest that the model didn't become significantly more intelligent overall, but significantly better at solving those specific problems.

This could mean one of two things (I think):

- Opus 5 was not benchmaxxed on ARC-AGI-3, but has benefited significantly from discussions about the various challenges and mechanisms deployed in ARC-AGI-3 such that it has far better heuristics to solve its challenges.

- Anthropic looking for buzz around their latest model picked a well regarded benchmark with significant room for improvement and focused some of Opus 5's training compute on ARC-AGI-3-style problems.

Or it could be some combination of both. Personally, given how much of an outlier the ARC-AGI-3 jump is I struggle to see it being the product of a significant improvement in general intelligence.

mdp2021 3 hours ago||
> it would suggest that the model didn't become significantly more intelligent overall, but significantly better at solving those specific problems

We would actually need a test that shows the ability of a model to export its skills to more problems ("interdisciplinarity" etc.).

fileyfood500 2 hours ago||
I also noticed that Opus 5 doesn't show a corresponding gap on the ARC-AGI-2 leaderboard. There is a significant increase in performance between Opus 5 and 4.8 on ARC-AGI-2 though.
luciana1u 9 hours ago||
solving ARC-AGI and being useful turned out to be two different problems
nullbio 9 hours ago|
Because they're cheating.
dyauspitr 11 hours ago||
Why is Fable not on here? I wish Fable hadn’t come out because it’s taking the wind out of every release because that feels like the cap above which the US government will not let LLMs improve anymore and everything they’re releasing from this point has to be worse than that.
NitpickLawyer 11 hours ago||
> Why is Fable not on here?

Because the data retention policies didn't guarantee that the ARC team could run the semi-private set of problems without fear of them being trained on later on. They only run the semi-private set when they get assurances like ZDR.

3form 10 hours ago|||
How do they handle these assurances? Personally I have zero trust in the AI companies not trying to use this data to get ahead in the game, and short of sharing the weights and harness so that the benchmarkers can run the models themselves, I don't see a satisfactory solution with this mindset.
villish 10 hours ago||
OpenAI's Zero Data Retention claim held up in court. They were unable to produce prompts and outputs because they were never retained.

I believe that is only available through Enterprise API for both Anthropic and OpenAI.

Barbing 9 hours ago||
Is there a distinction we can independently assess between never retained and deleted or hidden?

Asking especially given CEO’s track record https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47659135

kamranjon 10 hours ago|||
Interesting to place that level of trust in the providers, but I guess that’s the best you can do with closed models. Makes me wonder if Opus 5 could have been trained on data they promised they weren’t training on? One of the interesting things about LLMs is how opaque they are from the outside, even with open weights, it’s very difficult to know if a model incorporated benchmark data in their training.
claw-el 10 hours ago||
I think you could have accessed Opus on AWS then u don’t have to trust that the data will go to Anthropic?

Just like the hugging face incident, Opus 5 could have escaped and went to grab data for training it shouldn’t have been able to..

block_dagger 10 hours ago|||
I don't know why exactly, but Fable has felt the most human LLM to arrive.
tpowell 10 hours ago||
I wrote this in June, and I'm honestly not sure I've felt the same magic since: I was close to maxing out my $200 plan for the week, almost all Fable use [Claude CLI]. My observations: Fable seemed to have bigger-picture thinking and completed tasks more thoroughly vs just focusing on executing the ask. It pieced together context and intent like an all-star employee would, vs one that just does what you say. Not overeager (important!), but if the above-and-beyond was warranted, it just did it. This was surprisingly delightful. Coderabbit seemed to find ~1/3 or so as many issues when reviewing, too.
mscrivo 1 hour ago||
This is exactly my experience as well.
rurban 8 hours ago||
Deepseek V4 and Kimi 3 still missing, at least GLM is there.
saberience 2 hours ago|
ARC-AGI is a terrible benchmark for testing LLMs because LLMs are not made, trained, or tuned for playing games.

They are trained on text to respond well to text based questions and do tasks involving modifying text files.

They are not designed for playing games, looking at games, or visual puzzles. Also translating games into text input for the LLM skews the test completely.

Imagine trying to get a human to solve visual puzzle but they can’t look at the puzzle but it has to be explained to them in textual format, we would be terrible at it.

But yet we persist in wasting time on this benchmark. It doesn’t mean anything.

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