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Posted by andsoitis 9 hours ago

The Silurian Hypothesis (2020)(www.theparisreview.org)
52 points | 97 commentspage 3
jake_and_fatman 5 hours ago|
I'm butt hurt that I'm five paragraphs in and still have no idea what the hypothesis is.
rdiddly 8 hours ago||
Interesting topic, but (to immediately veer off of it) I really wish he would find another word and stop misusing "conspiracy." The word has already been through hell.
ptx 1 hour ago|
That was my first reaction as well. The author seems very confused about it.

He starts off defining it as something that is unknown or secret, and more specifically, he goes on to say, a secret "kept by a nefarious elite". I suppose secrets are usually associated with conspiracies, but a secret is not a conspiracy and conspirators don't have to be an elite.

And then he says that in this case, it's the Earth itself that's conspiring alone. This contradicts all the dictionaries I consulted, which define it to involve multiple parties, which makes sense considering the etymology.

tonymillion 7 hours ago||
The fact there is still coal(and oil) in the ground pretty much rules out any "advanced" industrialized civilization that came before us.

I also use the Carboniferous Period as a metric as to why "Advanced alien life" isn't more abundant (and I believe it should be factored into the Fermi equation)...

All those trees growing, soaking up sun, dying and just laying there to be compressed and buried without anything to decompose them, and then humans using them like solar batteries to power civilization (i.e. burning the coal), is one of those million-to-one things that enabled the human race to develop beyond basic society.

We needed all that coal and oil (and gas) based power to get to the point - industrially and technologically - where we could even build solar panels or nuclear to replace them, so its not like you could start from first principals and jump straight to modern power generation either.

The odds that the same sequence of events - fungus and bacteria not having the tools to decompose lignin (or whatever the alien equivalent is) - to happen on an extra-solar planet is ... pardon my pun ... astronomical :D

(yes, I used a dash to separate ideas in a sentence, deal with it...)

Razengan 8 hours ago||
Petroleum could be the byproduct of a previous civilization.

Also, just as we "engineered" animals and plants through selective breeding, previous animals/plants could have been the results of selective breeding by a previous civilization: There'd be no way to tell just as there'd be no way to tell our "tampering" a few million years in the future.

kergonath 8 hours ago|
> Petroleum could be the byproduct of a previous civilization.

How so? We know how it forms, there is no real gap in understanding there. What could lead to the kind of distribution of oil and gas fields we can observe?

Razengan 7 hours ago||
Just fun to think about and base fiction on

I mean, would an ant walking on a highway be able to tell that it's artificial?

kergonath 7 hours ago||
Probably not, but an ant cannot do any kind of isotope analysis.
Razengan 7 hours ago||
hah

but again, would someone a million in the future be able to tell that today's bananas, corn, watermelons, cattle, dogs etc. were the result of selective breeding by an intelligent species? (with no human records for reference)

kergonath 4 hours ago|||
If they’re a bit observant they will see that a humongous number of animals of the same species shows up suddenly, and localised in big numbers. Besides, there are a lot of signs of human activities. We changed the atmosphere in ways that are likely to show up in sediments. We mined all the minerals we could find to turn them into widgets that are not going to disappear. Our plastic items will end up in sediments all over the place, with wrong isotopic signatures. We find them in all places where we can look, down to the bottom of the Mariana Trench. They are carried to the seas by the same rivers that leave the silt that turns into rocks. Beyond that, we are leaving entire strata of plastics and metals in landfills. A lot of the satellites we put up there will fall back to Earth, but not all of them will. Some have orbits that won’t decay in millions years. There is not a single aspect of the planet that we haven’t touched.
antisthenes 7 hours ago|||
> would someone a million in the future be able to tell that today's bananas, corn, watermelons, cattle, dogs etc. were the result of selective breeding by an intelligent species?

They might be able to, based on when these disappeared, by comparing them to something more durable that is easier to date definitevely.

All those organic things bred to fulfill the purpose of being useful to our civilization would very quickly disappear and become outcompeted by the undomesticated species. This sudden disappearance (along with the disappearance of more durable artefacts, like steel/plastics) might hint to someone that these species "are not like the others".

Also by tying them to the cutoff in human remains (this is assuming humans disappear along with advanced civilization)

meindnoch 8 hours ago||
Joe Rogan tier pseudoscience.
davidbjaffe 4 hours ago|
Silurian Hypothesis, SETI, a widely help motivation for space exploration, much of sci-fi: all posit a high-ish rate of life (or intelligent life) invention, because the alternative is terrifying. I/we need/enjoy this, but it's fiction. When humans reason about the rate, they're extremely biased by what they want to be true.
ohthehugemanate 2 hours ago|
+1 in general that anthropic bias is strong, but it cuts both ways, even in relatively hard nosed statistical models (@see Drake equation vs Rare Earth hypothesis). Truth is, there are a ton of factors we just can't observe (yet?) that play a big part. For example, since the rare earth hypothesis was published, we know a lot more about exoplanets, and earth-range size in the habitable zone of a stable star and galaxy appears much more common than we thought. But we don't know if plate tectonics are really required, or gas giant "vacuum cleaner" planets int he same system, or even oxygen. But we do know that the minimum value for intelligent species is at least 1, because we exist.

For me, it's carl sagan's "invisible dragon" comparison that sticks in the back of my head. If there's intelligent life out there (or in earth's ancient past) but there's no physical way to detect or know it... Then like the invisible dragon in mu garage, it's the same as not existing.

Maybe we'll develop new techniques and gather new evidence, but until we figure out how to bend spacetime for FTL anything, or find clear evidence, we should act as if it isn't/wasn't there.

So TFA says that 55M years ago there was a climate fluctuation that looks similar to the anthropocene one. Good start. But interpretation of ancient stories across cultures is practically the definition of anthropic bias. We have to wait until there is real evidence that the temperatuee bump was dragonfire and not my heating system acting up, to ascribe cause.