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Posted by shehuphd 2 hours ago

The whole premise of checking for human writing is daft(mohammedshehu.com)
35 points | 67 commentspage 2
shiandow 1 hour ago|
There's an idea here but I don't think it's clear enough. Ironically.

At any rate even if you wish to judge the idea rather than the way someone wrote it down then I still think LLMs don't help.

Because the one thing I definitely agree with, the bull of the effort behind putting an idea in writing isn't the act of writing itself.

trollbridge 1 hour ago||
Impressive how this post was composed; it has 3 sections almost entirely AI generated (with the usual AI tells), and then 1 part entirely human written.

Pangram found the breaks properly too.

tptacek 1 hour ago||
If you've really thought this through and still believe it, then you should preface your writing with all the prompts you used to generate it. They're what capture your thinking, and they allow readers to interrogate those thoughts directly in their own LLM sessions (or over glasses of port wine in their debating parlors).
captainbland 1 hour ago||
> A person can type 3,000 words by hand and have no thought pass through their head beyond the need to finish before lunch.

I get this is tongue in cheek, but it's so wrong that it needs pointing out. Even if that is a thought in their head, they clearly have to have others in order to produce the text.

But in general, checking that a human wrote it is economic as much as anything else: attention is currency limited by time and energy, AI effort is abundant and therefore low value, human effort is less abundant and therefore more valued. Pyrite can look pretty but it's not what people want.

Retr0id 1 hour ago||
> A person can type 3,000 words by hand and have no thought pass through their head beyond the need to finish before lunch.

But when they do that, you can tell.

cjpearson 1 hour ago||
The author's case is not helped by fighting a strawman argument and backing it up with atypical examples of AI usage.

Those who favor human writing are looking for writing where the words are the product of a human mind rather than an LLM. The requirement for every character to be the product of a finger pressing a key is not something I've seen. Alternative input methods doesn't make a writing non-human. Spellcheck and probably even some amount of auto-complete are also generally considered to be fine. Anyone checking for keystrokes is using it as a proxy for human creation, not valuing the physical motion itself.

The pro-AI example is a writer spending hours tweaking a single AI output then later re-arranging and rewriting the piece before publishing. While this would probably still set off some AI-detectors, it does at least include some human effort. Presumably this effort will not be appreciated and readers will assume that the poster simply copied the response directly from their LLM of choice. It may seem a bit unfair to ignore the human effort in revising, but it's a reasonable assumption to make because almost nobody is using LLMs in this way.

Perhaps there's a reasonable amount of LLM use which would be considered a writing aid rather than a writing replacement, but the vast majority are simply mass producing slop so I sympathize with those who favor a blanket ban as a response.

balls187 1 hour ago||
I think we're just in an transition point.

When I get materials that are clearly AI generated, I look at them as if there was less effort put into it.

But that is irrational. If it was verified for accuracy, and edited for conciseness, and addresses the task at hand, does it matter?

yoz-y 1 hour ago||
It most probably wasn’t though, because that would mean doing only the tedious part of writing.

Another thing though. How many times does it happen to you to start writing after having an idea, but scrapping it because you realize it’s wrong/bad/unhelpful. To me, quite often. But if you prompt an LLM, there is no time to have that realization.

SpicyLemonZest 1 hour ago|||
Most of the time I find myself reading long-form text, it's not the case that there's exactly one task at hand. I'm trying to weigh different options to solve a problem, or explore future directions in a more general sense, or even just expand my intellectual horizons with interesting ideas I hadn't previously thought through. So accurate, concise text can still point me in the wrong direction and thus be entirely useless to me if the ideas contained within it aren't the product of meaningful effort.
bakugo 59 minutes ago||
Except it wasn't verified for accuracy. It never is.

The whole point of using AI to write for you is that you don't care to or can't be bothered to do any significant work yourself. If you care enough to do the research required to ensure all of the AI's output is accurate, that's like 80% or more of the work done right there, so why avoid the remaining 20%?

Nobody talks about using AI to gain a 20% productivity boost. They brag about 100% or even 1000%, which only makes sense if you're not doing any of that time-consuming "verification" at all.

JSR_FDED 1 hour ago||
Even if I agreed with the author (which I don’t), from a purely selfish perspective why would you want the idea you’ve ostensibly worked hard on communicated in a way that says “low effort”?
arjie 1 hour ago||
I once had a scriptures class where I had to hit word count on an essay and replaced every instance of “Jesus” with “Jesus the only begotten Son of God who died on the cross so that we may be saved from our sins”.

So, yes, humans can also expand text in a mechanical way. I just don’t want to read expanded text. So really the question is “is this text expanded?”. Pre-LLM very little was. Post-LLM much is and has certain distinct flavours that are detectable.

But I’m happy to say that I also don’t like human expanded text and the content in OP certainly reads expanded. It’s like inlining functions everywhere and then writing unrelated comments around them. Not interesting.

After all, if I just want to read text there are reams of content marketing blog posts and SEO keyword concatenations that I could go read. Or to put it in a different way: SaaS dropshipping shemale singles near you this one mother found a puppy buy crypto toys cheap car loans zero down furniture sale foreclosure mesothelioma lawyers car Trump USAID ethereum get rich quick

AnimalMuppet 1 hour ago|
Hmm. Expanded text. You have just explained why I hate the writing style of the New Yorker.

And when you put it that way, it makes me think of steganography. That's a form of "expanding" the text, and it seems like it might be a useful way to think about the problem. Somewhere hidden in that wall of text is an actual message... but I don't want to have to go find it.

arjie 1 hour ago||
I’m fond of the New Yorker’s fiction section but there is this genre of “long-form writing” purporting to be non-fiction which is just text expansion that I too dislike. I think The Atlantic is probably the top example of this and I, like you, cannot stand it. Write into the LLM summarizer machine if I feel the slightest inclination to read it, which I usually don’t.

I like this “steganography” interpretation.

oasisbob 1 hour ago|
Setting up the strawman of writing "by hand" only to attack it as being ableist is facile and asinine. Nobody is arguing that Hawking, or anyone else who uses dictation or other assistive technologies to capture writing, aren't writing.

Plagiarism will always be plagiarism.

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