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Posted by rmdmphilosopher 8 hours ago

The Dark Night of Mathematics(kirwinhampshire.substack.com)
147 points | 171 commentspage 4
bonoboTP 5 hours ago|
OP seems to need to touch some grass, spend time with friends and family, sit by the lake etc. Some sentences in there are quite disturbed.

Regarding math, the new tools are humanity's achievements, they weren't handed down to us from the sky. These tools are spiritual achievements. Just as much as calculators and computers in general. Just as much as the invention of writing and notation. You could also mourn the days when we'd calculate on our fingers only and would orally memorize certain calculation heuristics of geometry handed down the generations.

Regarding jobs, people aren't being paid for having a good time or for having fun and spiritual feelings. When you get paid, someone gives you money. The person or institution giving you the money has to have a reason for doing this. It is very basic logic, but academics don't seem to get this. If your work is pleasing for someone on an artistic or spiritual level, you can find a rich patron, the same way learned scholars did back in the day.

It's not any different from cashiers who get replaced by self-checkout or bank tellers by ATMs. You're not special. It's a job.

And I say this as someone who really appreciates the feeling of gaining insight when cracking a math puzzle or grokking how the definitions fit together and why something is the way it is, why a theorem works, I like mathematical elegance etc. But I don't think that is diminished in the least by being able to consult a smart AI about it.

RhysU 3 hours ago||
> The creation (or even the pursuit) of novel mathematics is one way that humans have historically accessed the ineffable and encountered the divine and mystical.

Would a mathematician please unpack this for me? A theorem is the opposite of ineffable. A conjecture may be ineffable but its pursuit reifies it. I am missing something.

m0llusk 3 hours ago||
Seems like maybe now we have sufficient tools to actually get on top of string theory. And ultimately it is all about coming up with explanations and formulas and tools that people can use in facing real challenges.
terminalbraid 3 hours ago|
Why does it seem like this to you when there's nothing been produced of note?
sureglymop 8 hours ago||
Pretty sure software developers already had that moment with coding agents. They can't really admit it like this, as it affects their employability now.
empath75 7 hours ago||
I spent two weeks proving a number theory result myself in lean just to see what I could do. (It’s something about composing polynomials with themselves and what other polynomials you can get that way).

It was a struggle with a lot of dead ends but it is just software engineering. It’s not a world away from getting a Rust program to type check.

The main problem I had with it is that LLMs will happily grind away case checking in Lean until the end of time and it’s up to you to see patterns and find dead ends. For example it wasn’t until I suggested to try translating the problem to a different characteristic that Mythos one shotted the proof (and found a counterexample for a related question I was working on).

My main problem now is _what to do with it_. I am not an academic, don’t know any academics and it’s a minor problem that I picked because I thought it was tractable and turned out to not be in the literature and fairly complicated, and the only reason I spent as much time on it as I did is that I thought I was an hour away from cracking it for about 10 of those days.

(In case anybody is curious about the proof, it’s that you can’t compose a single two variable polynomial over the integers with itself and any number of integer constants via substitution to generate all polynomials, but you can with x^2 - y and 1/2 if you allow rational numbers)

haickernews 7 hours ago||
I just cleaned out the gutters on my house. Took a while to direct the guys I hired, but feel pretty proud of the result.
drivebyhooting 7 hours ago||
How did you learn lean? I’ve played the game but I still feel lost and bewildered. Did the action of proving with LLM assistance teach you the best?
empath75 7 hours ago||
I didn’t. Claude wrote all the proofs, I just validated that it was sorry-free, didn’t have any extra axioms other than mathlib and that it proved what i wanted it to prove (there’s tools for that). I did also find a actual mathematician who did a sanity check for me.
wrsh07 6 hours ago||
I have two strong reactions to pieces like this:

First, this is about not just a job or career, but someone's identity. And we must have compassion that they are losing something that is fundamental to who they are. To them, it doesn't just feel like they're losing it, it is being taken by these companies that have so often acted in ways we despise

And that is a tragedy! And there are so many tragedies like this that will happen regularly as the technology advances

But my second reaction is one of this great shared experience. I studied math. Many of my friends are mathematicians. And it is now possible for anybody to access mathematical insights or think deeply about strange conjectures and theorems that were previously incomprehensible to anyone who hadn't at least studied mathematics in college

I don't know if 3b1b's Grant Sanderson considers himself a mathematician or science communicator, but I think of him as both. And while I expect he is someone with the mental capacity to find and prove new things in the world, I am grateful for the time he spends instead understanding things at a fundamental level and explaining and celebrating those concepts with his audience.

Not every mathematician can be or wants to be _that_ kind of mathematician. But for the moment, it is enough for me that higher mathematics is more accessible than ever.

And with some trepidation, I predict that the "traditional" job of a mathematician will change (of course it will). And it will change in big obvious ways and also subtle little ones. How will it change, though?

Importantly, math is actually going to be one of the fields where the fundamental things we thought we knew are shaken, because in the next five years we are going to start to see connections between things that were previously considered completely separate.

And so one way the job will change is that anyone who discusses math regularly will need to learn new things.

To me, this is exciting. It's almost like finding a bunch of new dinosaur fossils that fundamentally reshape our understanding. There's going to be a lot of work to do!

chrisjj 3 hours ago||
Imagine an invention that does a perfect job of brain surgery. And brain surgeons complain.
QuesnayJr 2 hours ago|
When that day comes, you think they won't? They spent their lives carefully honing a skill that is now worthless.
octoberfranklin 5 hours ago||
I am going insane. During the last week or so LLMs have produced a number of counterexamples to significant long-standing conjectures. I will not recount these happenings here, there are many places where you can find the details.

I stopped reading there.

Seriously how are we supposed to evaluate whether these were counterexamples to conjectures that real mathematicians had ever put any amount of effort into or not, if the author won't even link to them?

There are plenty of junk conjectures out there that even the conjucturee never spent time on.

boinkboink78912 7 hours ago||
The idea of ordering theorems like doordash is funny, kudos to the author for that :-)

Anyway, your "spiritual journey" doesn't matter. We'll automate mathematics because we can, because it's useful. Don't like it? Well, should have not chosen a capitalist economic system that rewards scientific progress so much.

iahds9uasd 6 hours ago||
I don't think the author of the article chose what world to be born into.
boinkboink78912 6 hours ago||
I meant all of humanity, not just the author. We, as humans, have collectively made our beds. It's time to sleep in them.
turing_curious 6 hours ago||
[dead]
robotpepi 7 hours ago|
He sounds as someone really pedantic who never understood what math is about or why it is important.
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