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Posted by gritzko 1 hour ago

Producing ammonia and fertiliser using wind power in Morris, Minnesota(ammoniaenergy.org)
37 points | 13 comments
epistasis 39 minutes ago|
Perfect project for rural Minnesota, that needs the ammonia, but also has a surprising amount of solar colocated with farms. And a fair amount of wind in the southwest.

However there are far far larger projects going on over the world. China is building multiple GW of wind and solar to power a massive ammonia/green hydrogen site right now. I frequently hear of sites in Spain in the hundreds of MW range.

The US has been pivotal in the invention of these technologies, but hyper-conservatism to protect fossil fuel interests is preventing us from getting the benefits as quickly as we should.

Animats 29 minutes ago||
There are press releases which link to other press releases. Found the technical paper from 2021.[1]

The ammonia plant is built for intermittent operation, so it can shut down or reduce output when there's no wind. No need to store much electrical energy. Storage tanks hold the ammonia. It's a reasonable idea, but is it cost-effective? No numbers are given. Still, fertilizer independence alone is worth something. You can do this anywhere with wind or sun.

[1] https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/1838620

toomuchtodo 9 minutes ago|
I presume battery storage cost will get to a point where process engineering for generation intermittency won’t be required, whether LFP or sodium chemistry, with an added benefit that the agricultural coop who owns the renewable energy and fertilizer production stack can also get paid for grid services and energy arbitrage using said battery storage.

https://ourworldindata.org/battery-price-decline

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/us-energy-storage-installat...

(federal subsidies remain intact for battery storage, as of this comment)

umvi 22 minutes ago||
So basically: wind generators power electrolysis to create hydrogen, the hydrogen is fed to a normal Haber-Bosch plant which is still powered by coal or gas. So basically the wind power is just replacing the carbon footprint of a single input (hydrogen) to a H-B plant?
philipkglass 16 minutes ago||
The only chemical inputs a Haber-Bosch plant needs are nitrogen and hydrogen. The nitrogen always comes from air and in this plant the hydrogen comes from electrolysis. The plant also needs electrical power to run compressors, but that can also be supplied by wind and it's minor compared to the embodied energy of the hydrogen input.
WJW 11 minutes ago||
Why would the HB plant be powered with fossil fuels? You can power that with wind power as well.
richardc323 18 minutes ago||
I grew up on an organic orchard, so don't get excited about artificial sources of nitrogen for agriculture and horticulture. It is better than getting fertiliser from fossil fuels, but it is still not great.

My mind goes to energy storage. If it was a smart way to do that, people would probably be doing it, who knows. Well, someone wrote a paper about it in 2022: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09601...

richardc323 12 minutes ago||
Turns out the article is on the Ammonia Energy Association website, wake up Richard.
philipkglass 8 minutes ago|||
We would probably have large scale use of renewable ammonia if fracking hadn't made natural gas so cheap. Natural gas is the largest variable-cost input to making most ammonia (it's processed with steam reforming to generate hydrogen), and in the United States it cost more 20 years ago than it does now:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DHHNGSP

The cost of wind power and solar power have fallen dramatically, but without accounting for the externalities of CO2 emissions, natural gas is still the cheaper way to make ammonia.

oconnore 8 minutes ago||
There are two camps: people who are fans of Haber Bosch because it feeds most of humanity, and absolute psychopaths.
ChrisArchitect 25 minutes ago||
[dupe] Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49048819
daliusd 35 minutes ago||
It would be interesting to get details what’s the process behind. Can you reproduce it on personal level?
WJW 34 seconds ago|
It's just electrolysing water into hydrogen and then using the hydrogen in a Haber-Bosch reactor with nitrogen from the air to make ammonia. Electrolysis is easy enough to do on a small scale.

Fritz Haber initially demonstrated his process producing 125 milliliters per hour of ammonia in a "tabletop machine", so it's obviously technically possible. Typical process parameters are about 200 bars and 500 degrees C, so it's not trivial but also not outside of what a dedicated hobbyist could reach. I'm pretty sure it's not economically feasible at small scales though. Even the earliest industrial plants in the 1920s made 20 tons of ammonia per day. It will be vastly cheaper to just buy the stuff in bulk from a plant churning out hundreds of tons per day than it will be to make it yourself at a rate of 2 liters per day.

That said, go for it! A factory is just a room, and similarly a chemical reactor is basically just a steel drum.

kerrieshitz 16 minutes ago|
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