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Posted by binyu 7/29/2026

Pareto Front(en.wikipedia.org)
202 points | 87 comments
Whitespace 7 hours ago|
I have a weightlifting spreadsheet with weight on the vertical axis and reps on the horizontal axis. The value of each cell is the estimated 1 rep max if I accomplish that lift. In theory if my e1RM is 100kg then I can lift any permutation of (weight,reps) that have the same e1RM. This is akin to knowing Pareto Frontier of my current strength.

I use conditional formatting to color cells according to the probability that I can lift them—if I lifted 50kg for 10 reps then I can definitely do 50kg for 9 reps, so that cell is green. But if e1RM(50,10) > e1RM(40,15) then I can probably do that too so it's light green. The visualization naturally becomes Pareto-like.

If I'm feeling strong I can aim for higher weight, lower reps. Or if I'm feeling weak I can close out a (weight, reps) that's below my current e1RM but I haven't accomplished yet. The end result is that I'm always "accomplishing" some sort of PR no matter how I feel.

I call this e1RM Bingo.

jerkstate 4 hours ago||
I wrote this app as a SPA! It uses a curve formulation similar to Brzycki, except I added a “shape” parameter (an exponent gamma between 0 and 1) that slopes the 1rm downwards at the right side.

My main finding for “pick whatever weight you want today” was that picking a lot of different weights made the curve less identifiable, so my latest iteration encourages you to pick a ladder for a few sentinel exercises per mesocycle in order to improve the statistical power. In addition, strength improves more quickly at >80% of 1RM, and hypertrophy depends on proximity to failure, so if you pick a lower weight, you really need to go to failure, which burns you out for the rest of your session, where leaving 1-2 reps in reserve is probably sufficient for hypertrophy and leaves a lot more gas in the tank for the rest of the session. Definitely open to suggestion/discussion here.

https://curvefit.app (it runs on Cloudflare free tier, so I won’t have to start running ads or charging until I hit a couple thousand users)

747-8I 47 minutes ago||
Great - commenting to refer to this
cman1444 6 hours ago|||
Could you please share this spreadsheet? I would really love to have my own version of this.
kachnuv_ocasek 4 hours ago||
Just copy-paste that description to Claude and have it create the spreadsheet.
joncrane 6 hours ago|||
This is a cool way to gamify weightlifting. Cheers!
godwinson__4-8 4 hours ago||
Indeed, GP should take a spin at turning into an app. Could be worthwhile to have Claude take a first stab at a MVP.

If pursued, good luck!

jerkstate 4 hours ago||
If this is something you are interested in, I did make a mobile friendly SPA similar to this: https://curvefit.app
xnx 13 minutes ago||
Clever name
wollowollo 4 hours ago|||
Respectfully, that's a cool illustration of the idea of xRMs etc but is missing the whole point of programming for higher or lower reps. E.g. lower reps are more stressful / higher cost of recovery but more strength-specific; high reps are better for hypertrophy work. But then, any well designed program will have you working across a range of rep ranges and so on.

Please don't make an app based on this.

jerkstate 4 hours ago|||
> high reps are better for hypertrophy work

Some nuance here: the latest research shows that proximity to failure is the main hypertrophy driver regardless of load and rep count; high rep count makes proximity to failure harder to gauge; so high load/low reps close to failure is probably better for hypertrophy (there are other good reasons to do higher reps/lower load work though)

bob1029 4 hours ago||||
The most effective (difficult) training regimens usually avoid the middle of the distribution. You generally want to be operating at the extremes with some rotation schedule or duty cycle. High intensity interval training is an example of this philosophy that occurs within a single workout session.

If you want the most 'optimal' form of this (aka, hell on earth), you should purchase a rowing machine. Being able to engage with very aggressive, full-body exercise every single day without exceptions is almost like cheating biology. You can maintain a 2-3x VO2 max premium over your peers with very little risk of injury.

MSKJ 2 hours ago|||
Respectfully, that's missing the point of the comment. It's a fun thing to hit PRs, not everything needs a 'well actually'
deadbabe 3 hours ago||
Respectfully, it’s nothing new. Weightlifting industry has known this concept forever, it’s often just expressed as charts rather than graphs, as it is easier to interpret.

But they go even a step further, they extend into 3 dimensions to also add body weight as a variable. So your graph would really have to be a 3D volume. Because different levels of body weight have different capabilities.

Aachen 9 hours ago||
Misread the title and got excited about a Pareto font, that is, the best possible font (presumably: distinct l/I, O/0, scores within error margins of the top readability and reading speed scores, widely available, etc.)

Maybe in vein but did anyone already figure this one out? The closest I got was PT sans, open-licensed commissioned by the Russian ministry for communication (I found it surprising that a country that doesn't use Latin script made the best font!), but it's not widely shipped so you need to figure out how to include font files whenever you want to use it

gadders 8 hours ago||
I thought it was some sort of Italian activism group.

"The Pareto Front today claimed responsiblity for...."

lucaslazarus 3 hours ago|||
You mean the People’s front of Pareto!
croisillon 1 hour ago||
splitters!
orthoxerox 7 hours ago|||
...20% of the attacks causing 80% of the casualties?
mdnahas 6 hours ago|||
As someone with an Italian grandmother and both a CS and Econ degree, I got a great laugh out of this joke! Bravo!
pphysch 4 hours ago|||
No!! That is the Front of Pareto[1], a totally different group. Our Pareto Front only causes 20% of the casualties.

[1] - http://montypython.50webs.com/scripts/Life_of_Brian/8.htm

airstrike 8 hours ago|||
Inter with optional open type features turned on?

https://rsms.me/inter/

Aachen 7 hours ago||
I didn't know fonts can have options. Another learning curve on how to enable that in Latex/Html/Libreoffice/anywhere else I use fonts ^^'. But still helpful to know about!

ss02 disambiguation seems to be the one I'd be wanting to turn on, with tnum for monospace numbers being a good option as well that I hadn't even realised I wanted from a font!

airstrike 3 hours ago||
Yeah, those features are awesome! Sadly support for them is quite lacking in applications...

Tabular numbers are awesome!

notpushkin 1 hour ago||
I feel like there should be a GUI tool to bake in any alternates into the font itself.
airstrike 1 hour ago||
Ok, I'll make it!
__s 7 hours ago|||
Trouble with fonts is sometimes monospace good, sometimes monodpace bad

Anyways I'll namedrop Iosevka as perfect monospace font for working on 13" laptop

throw-the-towel 6 hours ago||
Seconding Iosevka, it's great for code! And you can get a version without ligatures.
Aachen 1 hour ago||
That looks... swingy! Took a second to get used to it but I think I like the refreshing take for a monospace font :) https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Iosevka+Charon+Mono
peesem 7 hours ago|||
look at Atkinson Hyperlegible? commissioned by the Braille foundation for low-vision readers which means it's very readable
Aachen 2 hours ago||
Huh, I'm positive this was one of the first I considered (or perhaps it was a different dyslexia font) but I can't find the reason why I would have preferred PT Sans over this. Each has some pros and cons: PT Sans has same-width digits; Hyperlegible has a nicer-looking Q (imo); PT Sans has a normal-looking zero (not struck); Hyperlegible has a normal-looking 'fi' combination (no ligature that merges the two characters into a new one); Hyperlegible has a 6 distinct from an inverted 9; PT Sans needs a bit less horizontal space. The font specifically designed for accessibility should be the easy winner if all else is equal anyway

They apparently released Hyperlegible Next in 2025 which, flipping between tabs on Google Fonts (since the original website doesn't show the fonts), is nearly identical but has five new weight settings (nobody should imo ever use thin fonts though, it noticeably harms readability for me and my sight is only the tiniest bit below normal vision, but ok it's an option) and improved kerning (the original font had extremely little space between 'll', for example)

The 2025 version sadly doesn't ship with my version of TexLive, but the original (from 2020) already does so that makes it easy to use as well! Cool stuff, thanks for the tip :)

adornKey 8 hours ago|||
I'd also be interested in the Pareto Front of Fonts. That would be the final font collection - to rule them all.
arduanika 7 hours ago|||
No, it's far from the best possible font, but to its credit, it gets most aspects of typography right by just focusing on the ~1/5 of the requirements that actually really count.
Aachen 3 hours ago||
What are the 4/5ths that you don't like, and which one(s) would you recommend instead? (I'm mostly interested/focussed on the sans variant but also happy to hear about serif and mono)
arduanika 1 hour ago||
It's not that I don't like them. It's more just that some of these design considerations are not worth the effort to fret over, and if you're smart about your time, doing 1/5 of the work will get you something like ~4/5 of the results.
notpushkin 1 hour ago||
...so it is the Pareto font indeed!
joshka 8 hours ago||
lol same :D
CodeIsTheEnd 7 hours ago||
I am training for a marathon, and, as I increase both by distance and pace, I am always excited when I have a "Pareto run": a run along the Pareto frontier of me trying to maximize distance and speed.

When explaining it to some coworkers, I stumbled on a fairly intuitive explanation: "I've run farther before, and I've run faster before, but I've never run _this_ far, _this fast."

There was some pushback about why not just call it a PR (personal record), but I would only use that term for fixed distances (1mi, 5k, 10k, etc.) or a consistent route that I've run many times before. Nobody would say "I set my 7.40 mile PR today." More importantly, it misses the comparison to all farther (and faster) runs—it's not exciting to set a 5k PR just because you've barely run that distance before, and the pace is actually slower that a 10k you've done.

(Had a Pareto run of 7.40 miles @ 6:28/mi last week!)

froxtrot 6 hours ago||
Not relevant to pareto, but that's a really fun way to look at running. Not quite as fast as your pareto run shows, but I'll definitely keep that metric back of mind to keep the psyche high for running.
reedf1 4 hours ago||
The cycling equivalent is your power curve, i.e. the longest you've held a power for a certain time interval.
gpt5 8 hours ago||
You can see the Pareto Frontier well in DeepSWE's chart here - https://deepswe.datacurve.ai/

ChatGPT 5.6 Luna on the right (cheaper) cover most of the frontier, with a point for Deepseek flash, and higher performance overlapping heavily between 5.6 Sol and Fable.

That DeepSeek point will probably move back towards Luna as deepseek announced a "significant" price increase coming to their API [1], which kind of demonstrates that beating the Pareto frontier is where the difficulty actually is).

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-08-06/deepseek-...

kooi 4 hours ago|
I've been wondering if OpenAI make Luna artificially cheap to get people into their eco system.

I think it's great and hope the price can stay the same.

bob1029 3 hours ago||
I think Luna might be just small enough to provide some kind of stepwise improvement in how it is hosted.

Going from 81GB of weights to 79GB of weights can mean a 50% reduction in GPU capacity required.

If you can fit a model in just one GPU (or rack) as opposed to across an entire datacenter, the latency gains can be substantial too. If you can reduce token latency by half, that would double the amount of customers you could support.

bob1029 7 hours ago||
Pareto front sounds like an interesting way to optimize, but it suffers from the curse of dimensionality just like anything else.

As the number of objectives (dimensions) increases, the number of samples you need to cover the frontier increases exponentially. You will very rarely find solutions that actually dominate other solutions in many practical optimization scenarios. With 2 dimensions you have a 25% chance of domination. With 10 dimensions it's a .098% chance.

The most useful cases I've seen tend to occur where we just optimize for two things at once. The chances of domination are high, it's easy to visualize and very efficient to implement. As we get into higher dimensional spaces, things get weird really fast.

peri-cl 7 hours ago||
> "As we get into higher dimensional spaces, things get weird really fast."

The geometric problem of computing a d-dimensional Pareto set of cardinality n

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxima_of_a_point_set

has a truly weird property not covered by the computational complexity discussion on that page. It says there's an algorithm achieving O(n log(n)^(d-3) log log n), which is true and also a lie. The algorithm that achieves that asymptotic form is a galactic algorithm; and not an ordinary one in the sense of "has a large constant multiplicative factor", but one with this property (I've never found any other algorithm which exhibits it):

The runtime is within a bounded constant factor of n^2, for all n up to some critical N whose size is exponential in d (I think it was exactly 2^d or something).

I.e. the runtime has "two shapes": it's purely quadratic up to a galactically-large constant, and thereafter has a transition into to a slower function. The asymptotic version in the textbooks isn't achievable in the real world (for all but very small dimension).

There's an elementary proof using generating functions.

edit to add: If anyone's curious about it, a simplified version of the recurrence relation that's enough to exhibit this behavior (you can instantly see it if you graph this numerically) is

    f(n,d=0) = 1
    f(n=1,d) = 1
    f(n,d)   = n + 2f(⌊n/2⌋, d) + 2f(⌊n/2⌋, d-1)
jonathaneunice 5 hours ago|||
The curse of dimensionality times the reality that good metrics are elusive or themselves a bit cursed. Many outcomes you're engineering or product-managing toward are quite squishy, hard to define, and hard to evaluate. "Easy to use" or "can be used within 10 minutes" or "cleans up this current order form" are easy to state but hard to rate and/or hard to actionably implement as metrics.

I've built large, deep product evaluation frameworks, and it is 100% of the time a running argument with stakeholders, inside and out, "well you should have measured it this way" or "I think we should be targeting X not Y" or "why didn't you consider Z in the metric??"

The Pareto Front in practice is squishy, fuzzy, and often quite moist and moldy.

krapht 7 hours ago||
One I spent a few months working on was pathfinding for trucks. The goal is to find dominant solutions over {shortest time, lowest cost (tolls + fuel), avg road speed variance - traffic sensitivity} and then return 3-4 routes that are equal distance from each other in this dimensional space for users to pick from.

As you say, the most useful things happen in low-dimensional spaces.

pmarreck 9 minutes ago||
A very useful concept to know!
shermantanktop 5 hours ago||
I’m sadly twitchy when I hear “Pareto” - having endured numerous middle managers suggesting they can deliver 80% of the scope in 20% of the time (unrelated to the frontier topic here). Do that at each level of an org and the nonsense multiples rapidly.

The 80/20 “rule,” as far as I know, is meant to be descriptive after the fact. It can’t be used as a planning assumption. To be fair to those managers, they don’t really mean to be rigorous. They are just trying to justify cutting scope.

bellowsgulch 58 minutes ago||
I don't think power law distributions are the same thing. However, actually, in different fields, power law distributions are descriptive enough you can use them as targets for abstract criteria.
MarkusQ 5 hours ago|||
Managers trying to justify _cutting_ scope...

Is your planet accepting immigrants? I think I'd like it there

nonameiguess 3 hours ago||
That's the "Pareto Principle" whereas the frontier is talking about Pareto efficiency. They have the same name because both were first developed by the economist Vilfredo Pareto, but they're not actually otherwise related.
soupspaces 7/29/2026||
https://www.mayerowitz.io/blog/mario-meets-pareto
cubefox 7 hours ago|
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49195231
cpa 5 hours ago||
At $JOB, I use the Pareto frontier all the time.

If one option is at least as good on every relevant dimension and better on one, just pick it. That's not really a trade-off, and it shouldn't need escalation. Eg, if two SaaS tools cost the same and have similar support, but one fits your use case better, you choose that one. Otherwise, you just suck at your job!

The interesting decisions only start once you're already on the frontier, where getting more of one thing means giving up something else. If the better tool costs 50% more, now you're trading capability against cost, and that may need sign-off.

Basically, everyone should be able to get to the frontier on their own. Coordination and arbitration at higher levels of the org / between different departments should happen on the frontier, where the trade-offs involve several people or teams.

joncrane 6 hours ago|
Question: in auto racing, could one have a Pareto Front balancing single lap pace (qualifying optimization) and race pace (pace over an entire stint of e.g. 20+ laps)?
transitorykris 5 hours ago|
You’d be looking at fuel level affecting choices of ride height, brake bias, etc. Possibly changes in line and distance travelled too. But, I’m curious how psychology can fit in here (or not. How do you measure it?). Driver concentration and confidence are important when trimming out aero or other adjustments for single lap flyers.
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