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Posted by siatko 8 hours ago

Darktable(www.darktable.org)
230 points | 114 commentspage 2
drdexebtjl 6 hours ago|
To me the killer feature of Adobe’s offerings in this space is backwards compatibility. You can open a very old Lightroom library and the reprocessed photos look exactly the same.

The way they do it, unfortunately, is by maintaining every previous version of the processing pipeline.

How do the FOSS alternatives handle this?

If I was designing a raw engine I would try to store the high-level code for the processing pipeline in the metadata for each file such that it could be reproduced reliably across software versions and even forks. Like a sequence of shaders.

ryanjshaw 6 hours ago||
Killer feature is intuitive UX. Using DarkTable was an exercise in frustration for me.

In darkroom mode you can’t navigate to other photos with cursor keys. Since the cursor keys do nothing else I have no idea why the aren’t bound to the nav. You have to double click on a photo to select it, one click does nothing so again I have no idea why not just bind single click to select. Then it recenters the entire row on what you selected, which I find disorientating but I suppose because you can’t navigate with cursor keys this recentering is necessary.

If you are willing to read the manuals and relearn everything it can do what it’s supposed to but the UX of LR is worth it to me.

lionkor 6 hours ago||
Have you looked at the documentation? In Darktable you can click the questionmark, then click on any feature, and very extensive, well written documentation walks you through how, when and when not to use each module and feature.
drdexebtjl 4 hours ago||
Intuitive UX teaches you without asking you to read the documentation.

That said I don’t think the UX of LR and Photoshop is particularly good, especially in recent years. People just expect their skills to transfer over, but I don’t think FOSS should be doomed to clone the UX of proprietary software it seeks to replace.

throwup238 6 hours ago|||
> The way they do it, unfortunately, is by maintaining every previous version of the processing pipeline.

A LOT of professional software does this. It’s one of the biggest moats they have to customers switching.

I’d pay to see what software like Parasolid does to manage fourty years of backwards compatibility (CAD models made 30+ years ago have to come out exactly the same).

akersten 6 hours ago|||
Foss alternatives generally handle this by either not changing the format too much or by making old versions available to download in perpetuity and then you can manually upgrade your decades old library at your leisure. I'm really glad they don't spend their already limited resources on trying to handle every possible old library file under the sun, as long as you've got incremental upgrades working you've got a path. And if you are not using it on timescales that would allow for incremental upgrades you are not the ICP anyway so they've made a good engineering decision.
orbital-decay 6 hours ago||
>How do the FOSS alternatives handle this?

In the same way, because there's no other way. Darktable in particular contains previous versions of the color pipeline. Every RAW software does that.

drdexebtjl 5 hours ago||
I just suggested a different way. Embed the pipeline’s actual code in the metadata.

This presumably doesn’t work for proprietary software because the pipeline’s code is a trade secret.

orbital-decay 4 hours ago||
Proprietary software doesn't have any problem with embedded code, for example TTF does exactly that with fonts and they're still being licensed.

Code embedding has been considered many times but the rabbit hole is way too deep. You are embedding unverified executable code, to begin with. Then there's diversity problem: too much code, too many implementation specifics with every quirk being able to mess up the result. All of that spanning multiple generations of color science pipelines, experts, hardware, and third-party software to interact with. Since the advent of ML (for denoising and segmentation in particular) you have to also embed the weights as well, making it outright impossible.

All this leads to RAW processing code going the way of scientific and financial code: once written, it's frozen and the substrate is emulated if necessary. Even the bugs are preserved.

drdexebtjl 2 hours ago||
I don’t think TTF is a good example. You’re usually not allowed to embed and redistribute TTF code with your projects, only the resulting geometry, which is not subject to copyright in the US.

If you embed the image pipeline’s code in the user’s raw metadata, you essentially need to give them a perpetual license to that code, which isn’t a problem for FOSS.

tychota 2 hours ago||
I'm a long time user of raw therapee, that i found both awesome and complex.

Awesome because if you set the right debayering algorithm and fine tune ondelette, you can get way better result than anything else, especially in rought situation.

Complex because if i don't practice often (like have a kid) i end up watching niche tutorial and reading the wiki for VNG4 vs AMAZE which is a bit frightning.

It make me want to test dark table or one of the clone

mcdonje 6 hours ago||
Darktable is great. You can easily do pro-level photo editing. Anything you need for editing RAW files, you can do. The modules are powerful. The UI is good. There is a learning curve, but there are also learning curves for the paid software options.
Mashimo 5 hours ago||
Darktable is one of the few Apps that I loved and advocated for, only to land back on a pirated copy of CaptureOne. Which is I think the only pirated software that I still have installed.

I was super into darktable and had fun using it. The UI and UX was not an issue for me. Loved the masks. But over time it got harder and harder for me to get decent color grading from it. I don't know what changed. When I tried to communicate that on forum and git I got rather harsh responses.

Maybe I should try it again.

Itoldmyselfso 5 hours ago||
Pirated copies seem like a blackbox of potential malware, even if virus scans fail to find any problems (and they often give 10-30% false positives on most keygens/cracks). Even if the code is hosted in github, there has been plenty of cases of malware/viruses being hosted there too.
Mashimo 4 hours ago||
Yuuup.

Got it from an invite only torrent side, but yes, there is still a risk. But I don't want to pay 390 EUR (and not get any updates)

jlarocco 2 hours ago||
It's kind of shitty to pirate Capture One. The full, non-subscription price is only $350, which is less than most cameras, and not a bad price for "pro level" software.

I agree that it's a lot better than Darktable and RawTherapee, but if you don't want to pay for it you should settle for one of the open source tools. They're not so bad they're unusable, and editing RAW photos isn't exactly something you need to do.

Extra shame if you're using it commercially.

Mashimo 50 minutes ago||
It's 390 EUR / 450 USD for a software without updates that I use a couple of times privately per year.

I'm not proud of it. But I'm also not really ashamed.

vjvjvjvjghv 5 hours ago||
I have tried to get used to Darktable for more than 2 years but finally gave up and went back to Lightroom. For some reason it never clicked with me and made me almost lose interest in photography . And the AI stuff like masking in the latest Lightroom versions is crazy good.

I am generally really impressed with what the Darktable are delivering but somehow it just doesn’t come together for me personally.

jedimastert 5 hours ago||
I can also recommend Raw Therapee as an open source raw editor.
anfractuosity 3 hours ago||
Really like Darktable, was playing printing a few photos at weekend from it, on my large-ish dye-sub printer - DNP DS80, works very nicely under Linux with cups (once I figured out how to make it print in colour).

I switched to it from Lightroom and made a little Python script to copy photos based on their exif data, into the same file structure as Lightroom.

dllu 4 hours ago||
I use Darktable a lot for 10 years.

It has improved vastly over the years. I love the new additions like AgX!

However I tried out the new AI denoise and it still isn't great. I also wish there was a way to manually correct barrel distortion (eg for vintage lenses) -- currently it only supports embedded metadata or lensfun profiles.

I also find the OpenCL implementation to be rather slow. It would be better if it were something more modern like Vulkan.

evolve2k 3 hours ago||
I want a workflow where i can plug in my SD card, open Dadkroom, click a button or two and all photos are pulled onto my computer and then once definitely there the SD card is deleted.

I struggled a little to get this import workflow setup nicely, any tips on settings and config to achieve nice import workflow?

Once I’m dealing with duplicates I start to wigg out!

cbarnes99 3 hours ago||
Darktable should already basically do all of this with their existing copy and import function. The only thing it won't do is erase the SD card for you, and generally I would recommend you just format it on the camera.
jitl 3 hours ago||
This seems like table stakes for photo library software. Apple Photos does this perfectly on Mac and iPhone. i want more powerful capabilities but I'm not willing to sacrifice UX ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
guohaochuan 6 hours ago|
digiKam(https://www.digikam.org/) is also very good.
vividfrier 6 hours ago|
I tried. Just way too many bugs for even the simplest of things to be reliable.

I have very simple needs. I'm a hobby photographer who now has a bunch of kids. I want to shoot JPEG, I want to cull photos and maybe touch the exposure meter, and then upload my selected photos to Google Photos (aiming to replace this with Immich but not there yet).

And I want to do it on Linux. I can't believe this workflow is so wild that there simply isn't a single reliable option...

(Fwiw, digikam would allow me to import the photos and I could locate them via Finder. But through Digikam they never showed up - only the folders containing the photos. No filters were applied)

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