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Posted by yan 12 hours ago

Superlogical(www.superlogical.com)
https://mitchellh.com/writing/superlogical
552 points | 345 commentspage 10
_verandaguy 11 hours ago|
I really wish mitchellh wouldn't take funding from some of these people. Tobias Lutke in particular has chronically been on the wrong side of fundamental issues, and has most recently advocated for a pay-to-play version of democracy where wealth determines your ability to participate (and in particular your "stake" in the democracy).
Swizec 10 hours ago||
> Tobias Lutke /../ has most recently advocated for a pay-to-play version of democracy where wealth determines your ability to participate

He’s just looking at america post Citizens United and wishing he could ull the same shenans in Canada. It’s been working very well for the folks and orgs who can afford it

stephc_int13 10 hours ago|||
I also recoiled a bit when I say that Lutke was on the investors list.
otterley 10 hours ago|||
Does Mitchell even need to take outside funding?
bagxrvxpepzn 10 hours ago|||
> Tobias Lutke in particular has chronically been on the wrong side of fundamental issues

Just because someone has different ideas about what policies would produce better outcomes for society doesn't mean they are a malicious person.

Clearly there is a lot wrong with society and many suspect it's due to structural problems in how society is organized. Even if he's wrong, it's not surprising at all that a successful well-intentioned person who pays a lot in taxes who is otherwise not experienced in policy would have the opinion that the votes of people who pay more in taxes should have a greater weight.

There is no civilization if it's the norm to assume that someone is acting in bad faith if he has opinions different than yours. E.g. Wikipedia would have fallen apart https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith

slowin 10 hours ago||
I'm sure the people who would have their right to vote stripped from them would consider that malicious, and they would be correct. That's not democracy.
bagxrvxpepzn 10 hours ago||
> I'm sure the people who would have their right to vote stripped from them would consider that malicious, and they would be correct.

I don't agree with him but you're incorrect here. To play devil's advocate, if his policy idea resulted in better outcomes for them, e.g. better material conditions, then they may end up preferring not having a right to vote and consider him a good person.

> That's not democracy.

Democracy isn't necessarily the same thing as direct democracy, or "everyone votes." The Ancient Greeks didn't practice democracy this way. In any case, democracy isn't a virtue in itself. If one system is democratic according to your standards but the vast majority of its citizens live in squalor while another system is not democratic according to your standards but the vast majority of its citizens live in prosperity, which system is better?

slowin 10 hours ago|||
I think most people will agree that empowering the edgelord Shopify CEO is not going to improve most people's outcomes. All you need to do is read his tweets to see that he should have less power (much less), not more.
bagxrvxpepzn 10 hours ago||
> I think most people will agree that empowering the edgelord Shopify CEO is not going to improve most people's outcomes.

This is another logical fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

> All you need to do is read his tweets to see that he should have less power (much less), not more

I'd like you to make a real argument. What specific tweet of his implies he should have less power and why?

slowin 10 hours ago||
It's not a logical fallacy. You made the unsubstantiated claim that people would want their right to vote stripped from them. I do not think people want guys like this in power: https://xcancel.com/tobi/status/2081155797640171641
bagxrvxpepzn 9 hours ago||
> You made the unsubstantiated claim that people would want their right to vote stripped from them.

That wasn't a claim, it was a hypothetical.

> I do not think people want guys like this in power: https://xcancel.com/tobi/status/2081155797640171641

What is it specifically about this tweet that means him being in power would have bad outcomes?

slowin 9 hours ago||
I'd start with some German guy calling native Canadians who are actively civically engaged "useful idiots" and his suggestion that the unemployed and retried shouldn't have a voice in their community.
bagxrvxpepzn 9 hours ago||
> his suggestion that the unemployed and retried shouldn't have a voice in their community.

I don't see him making that suggestion. It's pithy so it's hard to really pin down a meaning to the tweet but I think he's saying that these town sessions aren't a meaningful expression of democracy because only a specific section of society is in attendance and one that may not understand key issues relevant to working or young people.

slowin 9 hours ago||
Calling people "useful idiots" is pithy?
bagxrvxpepzn 9 hours ago||
In this context, I would call it pithy sure. It's concise and direct. He's not explaining further.

He clearly isn't calling the other categories he listed (the " Retired, Unemployed, Unemployable") useful idiots, that's why he listed "useful idiots" separately. I don't know to whom he is referring as useful idiots but I don't think it's immoral in itself to use the term "useful idiot."

_verandaguy 9 hours ago|||
Historical precedent (both recent and not) shows that concentrating wealth and then giving those wealthy few an inordinate amount of political power does not end well for those disenfranchised by this system.

It is not reasonable to give the benefit of the doubt on the basis of Lutke and his ilk maybe being benevolent dictators if given largely unfettered access to the levers of power.

bagxrvxpepzn 9 hours ago||
> Historical precedent (both recent and not) shows that concentrating wealth and then giving those wealthy few an inordinate amount of political power does not end well for those disenfranchised by this system.

Historical precedent isn't a rational basis for argument. You don't make stock picks based on precedent. You need to actually examine the causes that result in outcomes to evaluate whether the same outcome would happen again. That said, I have seen good arguments for why weighting votes based on tax contribution would have bad outcomes so I don't agree with him.

> It is not reasonable to give the benefit of the doubt on the basis of Lutke and his ilk maybe being benevolent dictators if given largely unfettered access to the levers of power.

I have no reason to assume Lutke is a bad actor but maybe you know something I don't. Has he done anything to harm anybody or any group of people? Him being rich doesn't make him automatically a bad or suspicious person. There are many rich people who do good things with their wealth and free time.

_verandaguy 7 hours ago||
It's also a false equivalence fallacy to compare people to stocks. Historical precedent is a strong predictor of human behaviour.

The wealthy have been using their wealth to consolidate power for essentially as long as the concept of material wealth has existed, and the exceptions to this are far outweighed by the cases which conform to the rule.

tills13 10 hours ago|||
It's really unfortunate that the same traits that make you great at building a business (within capitalism) also often make you have psychopathic tendencies.
throwaway-blaze 10 hours ago|||
Easy to say this when the original commenter incorrectly described Tobias' comments. He suggested that those who pay more in taxes should have a greater say in how the government is spending the money. This is not a crazy idea on its face; you could say that taken to the limit it would not be a good system to live in (the highest taxpayer dictating what gov't does).

But it does make sense that those who are footing the bill for everything might be consulted a little on the plans to spend.

tills13 8 hours ago||
reading "those who pay more in taxes should have a greater say in how the government is spending the money" and NOT taking that to mean what the OP is suggesting it to mean is naive. Everyone knows what Tobias meant when he said that.
vrganj 10 hours ago|||
Kind of says something about the system we've chosen to run our societies on, huh?
an0malous 10 hours ago||
Now we’re ruled by an oligarchy of psychopaths and everyone’s wondering how this happened
draw_down 10 hours ago|||
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fourseventy 10 hours ago||
People are only allowed to take funding from investors whose politics align with yours?
antonyt 10 hours ago|||
"I think this guy is dumb and wrong. Oh no, this dumb wrong guy is going to have outsized influence on a project I'm interested in. Oh no, this dumb wrong guy may profit from a project I'm interested in. Oh no, this dumb wrong guy is using his wealth to do dumb wrong things."

This is a normal and reasonable thought process.

an0malous 10 hours ago|||
They stated their preference, not that there should be a rule to enforce their preference.
PersonalJarvis 10 hours ago||
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knighthacker 9 hours ago||
[flagged]
tosh 11 hours ago||
more info: https://mitchellh.com/writing/superlogical
ChrisArchitect 10 hours ago||
Blog post: https://mitchellh.com/writing/superlogical
an0malous 10 hours ago||
> Guillermo Rauch

This guy posted selfies with the war criminal Benjamin Netanyahu, did you really need his money?

https://x.com/rauchg/status/1972669025525158031

fnoef 10 hours ago||
I’m sorry. I tried to understand what is this about, but I couldn’t. The title didn’t explain it. The description neither.

I remember I heard a saying somewhere that if you can explain what you are doing in a few simple sentences, then is is this really something valuable?

luisln 10 hours ago|||
The vision of having a shared interface for all work seems pretty clear to me.
fnoef 7 hours ago||
I’m sorry, what does it mean?
sensanaty 3 hours ago||
It's just another AI gobbledygook product whose sole purpose for existing is to cash in on the hype bubble, a few years from now this'll just be another in a series of infinite other VC grifts
tamimio 11 hours ago||
[flagged]
an0malous 10 hours ago||
[flagged]
h92hPAnQL5ylGZR 11 hours ago|
It sounds like they're building a super-root which can destroy your whole infrastructure at once ???

From their website:

"Building and operating software today spans local machines, remote hosts, sandboxes, services, and production systems. It has many modes of operation: interactively with a human developer, automatically through CI and background processes, and increasingly through agents working in parallel.

[...]

We believe the missing layer is a durable session around the work itself: one that can span applications and environments, provide relevant context by default, expose structured data and actions, preserve history, and be driven by software while remaining visible and controllable by people.

[...]

This is our plan to build a multiplexer for all work: 1 Build an incredible multiplexer. 2 Make everything in it composable. 3 Make it safe and operable in production"

pprotas 11 hours ago||
It’s good to be skeptical, but this guy is the inventor of quite a bit of architecture software supporting modern systems

I think it’ll be fine

kccqzy 10 hours ago|||
It’s a terminal multiplexer. Nothing in this announcement suggests to me that using this multiplexer will require the user to get root or super-root or any additional permissions. It’s what the user already has access to, but more “durable” (which I take a mean terminal session history on by default). And I don’t believe any short-lived secrets like ephemeral keys could have their lifetime extended by a terminal multiplexer. And nothing really supersedes RBAC which any respectable org should be using always.