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Posted by baranul 3 days ago

I stopped trusting USB-C cable labels and started testing them(www.makeuseof.com)
121 points | 97 comments
ryandrake 1 hour ago|
> But I shouldn't have had to do any of this. It's time cables came with a label of their own, or some sort of color coding.

There shouldn't even need to be a label. A USB-C cable should be a USB-C cable should be a USB-C cable. There should be a single connectivity/performance spec, and if the cable meets it, it can be called a USB-C cable, and if it doesn't, it should have to be marketed as USB-JUNK or something.

This is what happens when the spec is awful and says "the cable must do 480Mbps, or it must do 40Gbps, or... whatever, have fun!"

Kirby64 1 hour ago||
Unless you want all cables to be thick, $60, and cap out at 1 meter long, this is not a reasonable standard. 480mbps USB-C is perfectly adequate for many applications. Likewise for 60W cables.
ryandrake 1 hour ago|||
So, call it USB-D or something, if one cable is significantly different (in purpose, performance, form factor) than another cable. Don't just call everything the same label, and let the non-technical buyer beware.
cameldrv 10 minutes ago|||
There are names for all of the features. It would be cool if there were some sort of color code or physical indication of a cables capability, but one of the cool things about usb-c is that the same connector works for really cheap stuff and really high end stuff. For example, in a pinch I can charge my MacBook (slowly) from a $5 gas station usb charger.
stouset 59 minutes ago||||
Okay, great, it’s called USB-D. Is this a new connector? Or do we now need to resort to labeling cables and checking the label?

Do we do this for every new version and combination of versions for USB? USB-PD? Thunderbolt? DisplayPort?

ReactiveJelly 27 minutes ago||
The computer / phone should auto-detect and tell you on-screen
Kirby64 55 minutes ago||||
USB-A has many variants and we don’t call it a different connector. Heck, USB-B and micro USB both have 3.0 variants that are physically different and we don’t call them something different either. I don’t see the problem here. This is just semantics, especially when they aren’t even labeled period… people just see a cable and will try plugging it in.
ryandrake 35 minutes ago||
The other USBs are no better TBH. I still remember USB Full Speed and USB High Speed. Do you remember, without looking it up, which one is faster? Same form factor, same physical connector.
Kirby64 24 minutes ago||
USB2 has been backwards compatible from the beginning though. I can’t think of a time in the past… 15, maybe 20 years where a USB cable wasn’t capable of high speed, unless it didn’t have data lines at all.

(And yes, I don’t need to look it up. But also I’m extremely familiar with the USB spec and have been tangentially involved with the USB-IF)

MetaWhirledPeas 1 hour ago|||
The naming could be better for sure.
revolvingthrow 50 minutes ago|||
I have several 1m long TB4 cables (100W, video, 40Gbps) and they’re neither particularly thick nor were they anywhere close to $60.

The best you can get is TB5 (240W, up to 120 Gbps data transfer) and at 1m long they’re $32 or so from CableMatters. Those are admittedly somewhat thicker, but not stiff.

I wish there was a higher baseline data transfer mandated for usb-c. Sure, 40gbps isn’t needed for all cables, but is some piddly 5gbps too much to ask? We had usb 2.0 speeds back when CPUs just barely entered 1 GHz range, it’s practically ancient technology. Admittedly most people never transfer any data over usb, but with this logic we might as well have usb-c that does charging only. Being able to pick any cable and have 5 gbps baseline means that any usb-c cable is fundamentally usable, if slow. 480 mbps is… ugh.

I don’t have an issue with 60W being the baseline, it’s enough for most laptops and the average GaN charger is 65 W (or less) anyway.

Kirby64 41 minutes ago||
> Sure, 40gbps isn’t needed for all cables, but is some piddly 5gbps too much to ask?

5gbps means you add 8 additional wires to every cable, and also would require that both devices on each side implement 5gbps PHYs for their USB (if you mandated it on devices too). It’s a large cost, especially when you’re talking about billions of cables.

stouset 1 hour ago|||
> There shouldn't even need to be a label. A USB-C cable should be a USB-C cable should be a USB-C cable.

Then USB is forever frozen in time, unless we start using new connectors.

This was the tradeoff we got when standardizing on one connector. The protocol versions change (USB, USB-PD, Thunderbolt), the cables that go between each connector change based on the needs of the spec they supports. But the connectors stay the same.

In my opinion, this was a poor tradeoff and now we’re living in the hell we asked for.

If you want every cable to support the latest and greatest of whatever exists as of right now, you can do that. By all means, buy Apple’s USB-C Thunderbolt 5 cables. They’ll run you $70 apiece but you’ll be buying a cable that makes no compromises.

My personal approach is to just use whatever cable came with the device for anything for which that’s convenient and plausible. For mobile devices with relatively limited charging speeds over USB-PD and for which portability and durability are typically important, I buy the latest Apple woven cables. For high-bandwidth devices I spend the big bucks on the Apple Thunderbolt 5 cables. I discard any cables of unknown provenance.

fragmede 31 minutes ago||
> just use whatever cable came with the device

the problem comes when the device and cable get separated, and the cable is "helpfully" organized into the bin with the rest of the USB-c cables.

mikeweiss 1 hour ago|||
I think you didn't put a lot of research in before making this recommendation. Labels make more sense because the top tier USB c specs are darn expensive.....
XYen0n 53 minutes ago||
USB-C is just a connector. A cable can be a USB-C connector USB 3.0, power delivery 3.1 cable, or it can be a USB-C connector Thunderbolt 4 cable, or it can be a USB-C connector DisplayPort 1.4 cable.
keane 3 hours ago||
Related discussion “The USB Situation” (3 months ago): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47950993

re: https://randsinrepose.com/guides/usb/usb-guide.html

Apple sells this $30 (0.5m) CalDigit cable https://www.apple.com/shop/product/hs9d2zm/a/ and this $70 (1m) Apple cable https://www.apple.com/shop/product/mdw94am/a/

There's also some interesting discussion of Thunderbolt 5 cables on reddit (6 months ago): https://www.reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/comments/1r84q54/

xbmcuser 3 days ago||
LTT has created true spec cables with the actual spec mentioned on the cables but they can not keep up with demand despite being expensive get sold out as soon as new stock comes in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hfovjw7Ts_U&t=974s

pzmarzly 5 hours ago||
They are not TB5 compatible though, and if you are going to drive monitors through it, or connect external GPU, 120Gbit (TB5) is much better than 40Gbit TB4 gives you. If you are willing to pay a bit more, consider TB5 cables from CalDigit, StarTech, CableMatters, or Apple.
rationalist 6 hours ago|||
By chance, has anyone tested Cable Matters' cables?

I just bought a couple of their Thunderbolt™ 5 cables. They seem like a reputable company that would make their cables true-to-spec. Thanks in advance!

RestartKernel 5 hours ago|||
I bought a 3-meter long USB C cable from them for data and display transfer, which turned out to be the only USB C cable of that length capable of driving my display at its full resolution and framerate. However, after a year of use, it stopped transferring any sort of data. So while they're probably up to spec, the quality isn't necessarily what their pricing may suggest.

Support allowed me to send it back for replacement as a "one-time exception", though I was well within the common 2-year warranty period in the EU.

exmadscientist 4 hours ago||||
We had good results testing Cable Matters stuff here at work, but that was for non-critical use so I didn't go too hard on the tests. (Actually, I didn't go too hard on any of it since it was mostly make-work from a manager trying to cause trouble, but still....)

I was quite impressed by GlobTek (available at Digi-Key) and have been buying those when I need something nice. Their USB-C line are some of the best I've seen, not that I'm a connoisseur.

malfist 6 hours ago||||
I've not spec tested them, but astronomy gear is notoriously picky about USB cables and since I switched all of my cables to cable matters a lot of weird behaviors just stopped happening
ThePowerOfFuet 6 hours ago|||
They are excellent.
Cieric 5 hours ago|||
They also crackle out of the package, or at least the 5 I got did. Kind of sound like the thin glow sticks a bit.
verandaguy 3 hours ago||
Could that possibly be shielding?

I can't say I've seen it on USB-C-esque cables (except maybe a thunderbolt cable a while back?) but I've seen some cables use a type of aluminum or mylar-looking foil between the outer rubber sleeve and the inner sleeves and wires.

exmadscientist 2 hours ago||
That shield is a drain wire combined with either a woven braid (most effective at lower frequencies) or a solid aluminized mylar foil (most effective at higher frequencies), or, for the best cables, both together.

A USB-C cable really should be shielded. Here's a cross-section I took of a nice full-featured USB-C cable: https://ibb.co/svR5Yvyr . You can see the VBUS/GND (fat red/black), the SS pairs (white plus red/blue/yellow/brown, each one foil shielded on this cable), the USB 1/2 pair (white/green), and then the CC and SBU stuff is the remaining wiring. Notice how not just the whole thing is braid+foil shielded, but the SS pairs are individually shielded; that's really important at these speeds, and what you want to see on a good cable.

Compare with two USB 2.0 cables: https://ibb.co/BHz4v1mx and https://ibb.co/GfpJmgbx ; the first one has the shield braid, as it should, but everything else is nicer on the second one. Cables!

HDBaseT 5 hours ago|||
I have a few of these cables, pretty decent although I think the USB-C ports are a bit too thin? They feel lose in multiple of my devices
aeroevan 6 hours ago||
I managed to get a few and so far am impressed. They are definitely on the chunky side but that probably comes with the durability
Gigachad 2 hours ago||
My concern is stiffer cables are likely more likely to rip USB ports off the PCB. A lot of devices provide very little support to the USB port which is basically just hanging off pads on the PCB, so a stuff heavy cable could provide a lot more bending force to rip it off.

Phones and macbooks have it done right where the outer portion of the port is built in to the device body, but most other devices don't do this.

TheTxT 41 minutes ago||
They’re chunky, but very flexible. There’s basically no memory effect to them either, so they don’t try to curl up on their own.
synack 1 hour ago||
I came up with a color code based on the wiring: Red for Power Only, Blue for USB 2.0, Green for USB 3 (the ones with the extra pairs connected). I use paint pens to mark every cable I come across with this code. Generally speaking, only the Green ones have special PD emarker chips.

It doesn't cover every possible configuration, but it's good enough for when I'm like "I need a USB cable" vs "I need a good USB cable"

I use this tester: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CF95VL2Y

3RTB297 37 minutes ago||
As much as the original author bemoans having to do the labeling themselves, 99% of people don't care or don't have such a mix of cables as to make it a challenge to find one to suit the task.

If you care, then care enough to do small, practical things for yourself. A little loop of tape. Paint marker. Even just sorting them into drawers/boxes/whatevers by type.

Kirby64 53 minutes ago||
E markers are required for USB3, so that’s why. If you have a cable capable of 100 or 240W, they will also have a marker (it’s required), even if they only do USB2 speeds.
palmotea 1 hour ago||
I use one of these to check the wiring of the USB cables I get, especially if I'm getting a weird one. I've always been a little freaked out by the story of that Google employee who posted very trusted USB-C cable reviews to Amazon, then got his equipment fried by one that crossed the wires.

https://www.tindie.com/products/bittradeone/usb-cable-checke...

But when I care about performance, I just get a cable from Anker and don't worry too much about it.

BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS: WHERE CAN I GET ONE OF THOSE TINY GREEN MILK CREATES IN THE PHOTO?

mjmas 33 minutes ago|
> green milk crates

Looks like https://makerworld.com/en/models/1515018-110x110mm-square-st...

heffer 25 minutes ago||
More like https://www.printables.com/model/1148683-stacking-storage-ba...

No handles.

jerbearito 2 hours ago||
Does HN allow spammy posts written for the sake of sharing an affiliate link? Surprised to see this here.
bariumbitmap 1 hour ago||
> Any cable that can transfer data faster than USB 2.0 speeds also requires a chip to do so.

I always found this confusing because USB 3.0 Micro-B cables can transfer data faster than USB 2.0 without needing an e-marker, so why do USB-C cables need one if they already have the Tx and Rx SuperSpeed wires?

It seems like the answer is, roughly, "it's complicated".

https://old.reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/comments/1ow1tpf/why_d...

https://old.reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/comments/13j0gev/do_us...

Kirby64 50 minutes ago|
If you’re following USB-C standard, all cables with faster data than 480mbps and more power than 60W require an e marker, period. Whether devices will still function for USB3 without that marker… that’s another story and will depend on the device.
ChrisMarshallNY 6 hours ago||
As always, these testers (the affordable ones) are capable of testing continuity, and, I guess, the cable chip report.

If you want to test bandwidth, that's a five- or six-figure bit of gear.

nerdsniper 3 hours ago||
This keeps needing to be pointed out every thread this appears on. Plenty of cables have eMarkers that claim "40Gbps" or whatever speeds, or support 240W PD...but absolutely cannot deliver either of those. And none of these consumer level testers can test either of those claims.

Resistance measurements can cursorily test claims of 240W but resistance changes with temperature which changes with current...so unless your tester puts 5 amps down the wire for 5 minutes and then tests resistance it's not a very good test.

maya335 3 hours ago||
Yeah — "the eMarker said 40Gbps" is basically the same problem as trusting the print on the jacket.

For home use I've ended up treating real capability as an empirical property of the specific cable+port+device combo: does this exact cable drive this monitor at the mode I want, under load, for an hour? If yes, it gets a colored heat-shrink band and never leaves that use case. Everything else is a phone/charge cable until proven otherwise.

mshroyer 1 hour ago|||
Why on earth is so much more expensive than an arbitrary pair of devices that could max out a cable?
ChrisMarshallNY 1 hour ago||
Think about it.

You need to generate a precise, calibrated, 40GHz signal, transmit it, then precisely measure the returned signal for phase, amplitude, and waveform integrity -at that speed.

Oscilloscopes and logic analyzers that run at that speed, are damn expensive.

Gigachad 3 hours ago||
It’s much cheaper to just buy your cables from Apple or LTT knowing they tested them on a 6 figure testing rig.

I throw out every usb cable that comes bundled with devices because they are literal junk.

orbital-decay 1 hour ago||
That's an ad. There's a lot of cable testers around, most of them are crap. Cheap testers like this one are based on generic chips reading e-markers and aren't even guaranteed to support all quick charging standards. And bandwidth is another matter entirely.
Terr_ 54 minutes ago|
Yeah, I found it odd that the author started talking about bandwidth and data concerns, but then testing part is only about power-transfer.
kiwijamo 5 hours ago|
Interestingly, I have found a very mixed bag of USB-C cables I've collected over the years to generally just work for all my use cases. I can charge my various USB-C laptops at 65W with all the USB-C cables I have on hand. Maybe it's just my habit of just buying cables from known brands (Belkin is normally my go to) but I also have random cables that came with various devices of varying quality and all these also work just fine. I have a 6-port charging hub so I can see the charging wattage and I can easily get 65W to various laptops and a high capacity power bank, regardless of the cable being used. All cables also work fine for data transfer, although I confess I use USB-C for data transfer rarely so it is possible there is some variability there. YMMV but I wonder how much of this issue is just crappy low-end cables?
ssl-3 4 hours ago||
Every not-broken USB C cable allows for 480Mbps USB 2 speeds and 60W charging. In USB C terms, it doesn't get any more basic than this; that's as low-and-slow the specification tolerates.

The issues come into play with going beyond that. USB 3 speeds? USB 4? Thunderbolt? DisplayPort (4k uncompressed video!) alt modes? 240W charging? These are all practical things that regular people use USB C cables for every day, but they require very specific support from the cables themselves, and that support is widely varied.

Your cables work fine for what you're doing with them, but you're really barely scratching the surface of the kinds of things that can be done. :)

retatop 3 hours ago||
Not that I disagree with you, but I _wish_ "regular people" used 240W charging every day. As far as I can tell it's still pretty niche and hard to get 240W chargers
BobbyTables2 2 hours ago|||
Just convince the auto industry to use USB cables for electric car charging!

My desktop “server” with two 4K monitors doesn’t even reach 240W !

denkmoon 2 hours ago|||
What device would I encounter in my day to day which would use 240W charging though?
Gigachad 3 hours ago|||
It’s because you are using the lowest use case for usb (like most people). Literally everything can manage 65w power only.

All of these “usb sucks” posts are about using multiple 4k 120hz monitors dasychained while pumping 140w and a handful of other dongles hanging off which pushes usb to the limit and requires carefully selecting the highest quality cables.

socalgal2 5 hours ago|||
It's surprising to me you've been that lucky with Belkin. They do not have a good reputation. Maybe cables are easy so that's an easy bar to pass.
wslh 5 hours ago||
What 6 port charging hub do you have? I have a broken UGREEN one.
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