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Posted by dzdt 3 days ago

Civilian plane crash in New Mexico tied to military GPS blocking(www.wired.com)
495 points | 276 commentspage 4
billwear 2 days ago|
I guess there’s no way to constrain these jamming signals to some reasonable perimeter? 400 miles of overspill seems like sloppy engineering.
sokoloff 2 days ago||
The satellite GPS signals are incredibly weak.

Individual GPS signals typically arrive at the antenna below the receiver’s thermal noise floor and the system relies on processing gain in the receiver to generate a fix.

entrope 2 days ago||
Depends on the source and what you're trying to exercise. M-Code and spot beams are supposed to provide something like 20 dB of jamming resistance, and if your jammer is not right next to the target then the jamming could be a factor a long way off. (For reference, a target 40 miles from a jammer would see ~20 dB more interference than a target 400 miles away. White Sands Missile Range is 3200 square miles, but much longer north-south than east-west.)
Magicrafter13 2 days ago||
If the sky was clear, as the article states, then lack of GPS is not a good enough excuse for a trained pilot to crash into a mountain, unless the cockpit has no windows.

It's not fun to lose GPS, but, a trained pilot ought to have been able to handle this situation fine. All instruments can fail, but weather notwithstanding, no instruments are required to land a plane back down on a runway (implied in my statement is that, if you lose all your instruments, you should still try to land rather than continue your flight).

At the end of the day, if you aren't proficient in VFR, then your IFR proficiency doesn't mean much. Hopefully this pushes the relevant flight schools to do more training, because this crash appears highly avoidable - and while the pilots take some amount of blame since they are behind the controls, there are also people who failed them by not giving them sufficient training.

aftbit 2 days ago||
I thought this at first, but then read farther and realized the flight started at 11pm on a moonless night. An unlit mountain is hard to see at night.
Magicrafter13 2 days ago||
That's valid. I wouldn't call that a clear sky, personally, but I suppose it can still be considered one.
wat10000 2 days ago||
This is a real issue, where conditions that are legally considered sufficiently clear for visual flying aren't necessarily safe for it. A famous example is JFK Jr. He was flying over water on a hazy night with poor illumination without an instrument rating. This was considered clear and was perfectly legal, but he got disoriented and crashed into the ocean.

It's hammered into pilots that safe and legal are two different things, and you must evaluate whether the conditions are something that you can actually handle safely, not merely whether you're legal to fly in them.

_moof 2 days ago||
> If the sky was clear, as the article states, then lack of GPS is not a good enough excuse for a trained pilot to crash into a mountain, unless the cockpit has no windows.

I have thousands of hours as pilot in command and have worked as a professional pilot.

Unlit terrain is invisible at night. The moon was new. They did not see, and could not have seen, the mountains.

bdavbdav 3 days ago||
It feels like if you know how far away the strip is (sounds like they did), and can get a bearing on it, they should be all set… with no GPS they should presumably have had even stronger eyes on the charts.

Back when i used to sail, taking bearings with a sighting compass on two points on land / two buoys always gave you a fairly accurate position. Not sure if there is a sighting compass equivalent with elevation angle too on planes?

ge96 2 days ago||
Can anybody explain what the visual is, what are the dots moving/getting blown around by something
zelias 2 days ago||
Remember Moab!
dolmen 2 days ago||
> a twin-engine Beechcraft King Air medevac plane took off from Roswell, New Mexico

Roswell.

Blaming GPS jaming and the military? What about the aliens?

upofadown 3 days ago||
A rehash of the paywalled Wired article:

* https://futurism.com/science-energy/us-military-gps-jamming-...

inemesitaffia 1 day ago|
It's not a rehash. It's an article, like wired but worse. That leaves you worse off for having read it.
jewsdid9eleven 19 hours ago||
[dead]
Paaul01 2 days ago|
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